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O'REILLY: In the "Factor Investigation" segment tonight, more than 100,000 people have voted in the BillOReilly.com poll, which asks do you believe the U.S. oil companies are price gouging? Eighty-nine percent said yes. Just 11 percent do not believe that.
By the way, the price of a gallon of regular unleaded is up about $1 a gallon from a year ago.
But the perception is not the same as the reality. And we want to know exactly who's making all the money and how they're doing so. With us now, John BIRGER, senior writer at Fortune magazine and Elizabeth MACDONALD, senior editor at Forbes magazine.
All right, Elizabeth, you were here last time. And this is basically as dumbed down as I can make it so even I understand it.
Oil comes to the United States from the OPEC countries in tankers, and it arrives. And then it goes into refineries around the country. All right?
The oil companies pay for that to happen. They pay OPEC. They pay for the tankers. They pay for the refineries, all right? The big five, most of them.
It gets into the refinery. They take the oil. They turn it into gasoline. That comes to everybody's gas station. Who sets the price of the gallon of gasoline?
MACDONALD: The oil and gas companies, based on what the oil and gas actually gets — is trading at on the open market, on the commodities exchanges.
But the problem here is that when gas station owners are telling you that that they feel that the refineries are gouging consumers, then people ought to sit up and take notice and pay attention.
O'REILLY: All right. So the guy ,O'REILLY, he's — what is he? Chevron? He's the CEO of Chevron . He sits there with his guys at a big, long, shiny table. And does he say, "I'm going to charge $3.50 a gallon?"
MACDONALD: Based on what the market will bear, he will — he along with his other executives at his company will see what the other oil and gas companies are charging, and they'll figure out what the wholesale price should be.
O'REILLY: So they're all looking at each other?
MACDONALD: Based on what the market is telling them in terms of the commodities exchanges.
O'REILLY: Now nobody knows what the market is, Mr. Berger. Nobody knows what that is. It's not a person.
See, if I buy a McDonald's Big Mac, I know the Big Mac was set at a price by the McDonald's Corporation. They said, "We're going to charge $1.75 for the Big Mac." I know that. But I don't know what the market is or the commodity or the mercantile. These aren't human beings.
BIRGER, SENIOR WRITER, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: I can tell you, there are no big, long, shiny tables where a cabal of oil moguls are out there setting prices. These prices are set on open markets by traders and investors all around the globe, who are simultaneously bidding or selling and buying oil. And the price...
O'REILLY: Are you telling me the five big oil companies don't buy oil? Of course they do.
BIRGER: Of course they do, yes. But they don't...
O'REILLY: They negotiate the...
BIRGER: But the chairman of Chevron doesn't wake up one morning and say the price of gasoline is going to be $3 a gallon.
O'REILLY: Well, doesn't the chairman of Chevron, David O'REILLY, say to OPEC, "I'll pay you this amount for the oil. This is what I'll pay you"?
BIRGER: No.
O'REILLY: He doesn't say that?
MACDONALD: No.
O'REILLY: He doesn't control his product?
BIRGER: No, he doesn't.
O'REILLY: All right. That's interesting.
MACDONALD: I disagree with that. On Shell's own web site, they say that they go in and they set what the price of gasoline will be, based on what the market is telling them that the market will bear.
O'REILLY: That's what I think. They charge what they think they can get away with.
MACDONALD: Right. And the problem is what's going on is we've had a lot of oil company mergers. I'm only reporting back what the independent or the grand gas station owners are telling me. I'm basically a reporter here.
The gas stations want supply and demand to dictate the prices. They want an open market. They want the free market to work.
O'REILLY: But you can't have an open market when you only have five major oil companies.
