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Welcome back! My guest tonight, he runs this town,
欢迎回来！今天的嘉宾是，他管理着这片地区，
and if you know what's good for ya, you will shut up!
要是识时务的话，你就别说话！
He's the mayor of New York City.
他是纽约城市长。
Please welcome back to the program, mayor Bill de Blasio!
欢迎他再次回到节目中，欢迎比尔·白思豪市长！
How are ya?
你好吗？
Thank you for joining us!
欢迎来到节目中做客！
It is a great pleasure.
这是我的荣幸。
You know, this is an exciting time for you. You know, you obviously,
你现在应该是很高兴才对，
mayor, you're also taking a more national platform on the issue of income inequality.
我听说市长，你现在正在参加一项收入不平等问题的国家改革。
You feel that's a real injustice and I want to ask you, before we get into that,
你认为这是真正的不公正，那么在进入话题之前，
what also about height inequality?
我想问您，关于高度不平等您怎么看？
What about a situation where the 1% percenters tower in their ivory legs over the Hoi polloi,
假如那1%的人，他们的象牙腿的高度超过了大部分群众，
the pollotarian, who, maybe, are closer to the rats, the gutter, the subway?
还有那些只吃白肉的素质者，他们的身高可能和水沟，地铁里的老鼠差不了多少，那你将怎么办？
How do you redistribute that?
你是如何再分配的？
I'm kind of darwinian on this one.
我可能会采取优胜略太的方法。
Really? Yeah, yeah! All right. You know, winners, losers.
真的吗？是的，是的，失败者和成功者。
When hundreds of us tie you down to the ground gulliver-style.
如果有数百人将你捆绑在地上，就像格列佛，
I've had that recurring nightmare.
我曾经反复做过这种梦。
I've had the opposite.
我和你恰恰相反。
With income inequality now, you put together what's called a progressive agenda to address income inequality.
就目前的收入不均问题，你出台了解决该问题的革新计划。
Basic ten posts, what can be done?
我们能怎么做？
Raise wages and benefits. Fifteen-dollar minimum wage should be the norm in the United States of America. Right.
提高工资和福利。十五美金的最低工资应该成为美国常态。对的。
Now it said I understand that for Walmart, I understand that for McDonald's.
但是像沃尔玛，像麦当劳这样的企业是可以做到的。
Businesses, is there, like small businesses on the margins who may not have the ability to do that?
但许多企业，许多小企业可能没有这样的能力，
Is that taken into account or is the idea, it's okay?
那么我们是否要把这个考虑在内，还是说就是一个想法？
Look, you can always have some local variations and some exceptions,
你当然可以根据当地的条件做出相应的改变，当然是可以有例外的，
but here is the core point, minimum wage used to mean what you could actually live on. Yes.
但是这个问题的点在于，我们说的最低工资是你能够生存的工资。对的。
New York City, they, minimum wage $8.75, can you live in New York City on $8.75 an hour?
纽约城的最低工资是8.75美金，每小时8.75能在纽约生存吗？
I don't think you can live anywhere on $8.75 an hour.
8.75在哪都没法活啊。
And also these larger corporations, the Walmart, the McDonald's they pay very little. So that people can live.
许多大企业，像沃尔玛麦当劳等，他们所支付的工资非常低，这样人们才能生存。
Food stamps, welfare, et cetera. Correct.
比如说食物券，福利等等。没错。
Fifteen-dollar minimum wage, give people basic benefits nationally, paid sick days, paid family leave,
十五美金最低工资，全国范围内的基本保证，带薪病假，带薪探亲假，
the kinds of things we see in industrialized nations all over the world.
在全球范围内，所有工业化国家都是一样的，
Tax the wealthy. It is a crazy idea? Tax the wealthy.
富人征税，这是一个疯狂的想法，富人征税。
OK, so here's one, here's one we gonna throw to you. This is Charde-approved.
好的，还有一个问题要问你。查尔德也同意这个建议，听着。
1982, the SEC deregulated the stock option buybacks for corporate investment.
美国证券交易委员会解除了对企业投资证券的回购管制。
What about you rein that in, so much of the profits, we've got some of the statistics here.
那如果你加强这方面的管控，那么大量资金，我们这里有许多数据显示，
And this is by the way Harvard Business Review, this is no leftist rag,
先说一下这是《哈佛商业评论》的数据，不是什么左倾思想蛀虫，
are suggesting that if you take away this buybacks fever on the open market
他们认为的是，如果你将公开交易市场的回购热潮管控起来，
it inadvertently inflates the stock market, so much of the wages pulled out,
这么做会不经意间让股票市场水涨船高，之后将工资抽离出来，
not reinvested back into the company, but goes to the board and stockholders.
不再将资金再次投入到企业中，而是流入到董事会和股东的手中。
Would you support that type of program?
你会支持这种计划吗？
Absolutely, in the progressive agenda, available at "progressiveagenda.us" by the way, in the progressive agenda. Couldn't get ".com"?
当然，在我们的革新计划上，顺便说一下整个计划可以在progressiveagenda.us网站找到，在这个计划案里。为什么不是“.com”？
We just took whatever we get.
我们有什么就用什么。
So in it we make clear that tax advantage for quote unquote performance pay,
在这个计划案中，我们明确了所谓奖金的税务优惠，
which is exactly what you were referring to stock buybacks.
这个就是你刚才所说的股票收购问题。
CEOs make a huge amount of money and then it's tax sheltered currently,
那些企业总裁赚的钱是最多的，他们现在是处于避税状态的，
and what it does, as you indicate, is then to make matters worse
就像你说的，现在这种情况愈演愈烈，
because the money doesn't go back into the company,
是因为资金没有流入企业，
doesn't go to workers, doesn't go to investments in the economy building.
没有发给工人，没有用在经济投资上，
Economy build more jobs, no, it goes to the few.
经济创造就业机会，其实没有，这些钱全部被富人拿走了。
So here is the bigger problem in our country.
那么，这就是国家面临的最大问题。
Concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the very few is actually pulling down the country
财富和权力集中在少数人手中的这一现象，
with the greatest income disparity since before the Great Depression.
会让国家面临比经济大萧条之前更为严重的收入不均问题。
We have for the last 25 years or so the average American family literally
二十五年前，平均美国家庭
adjusted for inflation has gone backwards economically.
为了适应通货膨胀，经济状况有所下滑。
We had a quote unquote recovery since Great Recession, the vast majority of gains went to the top 1%.
继经济大衰退以后，我们进入到了所谓的恢复期，形成了多数财富掌握在1%手上的事实。
With these statistics being so stark, why is it so difficult to then
这些数据已经非常明显了，那么为什么那么困难，
is it the people do not trust that when that money goes back to the government
是不是人民不再相信政府，不再相信这些资金政府能够
that it will be spent wisely, that it won't be squandered?
合理利用，而不会肆意浪费？
Do they almost prefer it being squandered to the wealthy CEOs than squandered to the government?
他们是宁愿让有钱人浪费也不愿意让政府浪费吗？
How do you rebuild trust if that is your platform that that money is utilized correctly?
如果资金真的用到了实处，你如何让人民重拾对政府的信心？
I think when people of this country see their government ensure a decent standard of living,
我认为是这样，如果政府能够保障人民的基本生活，
again, a $15 minimum wage, paid sick leave, paid family leave,
十五美金最低工资，带薪病假，带薪探亲假，
pre-k something we are very proud of in this country.
还有我们引以为豪的高等学前教育。
Pre-k should be universal for families in this country.
这种学前教育应该在全国范围内施行。
It should be given that you have full day pre-k for your kids.
学前儿童应该享有全天学前教育。
When the government is providing those kind of fundamentals,
如果政府能够保证这些，
there will be an increase in that trust again.
那么人民对政府的信心就会提升。
But I think on the other part of the equations,
但从另一方面说，
people don't get to vote on a lot of these things. Let's face it.
许多事情大众没有投票权。这是现实。
These were changes in our private sector economy that happened without public debate.
许多私营经济中的变化并没有通过讨论而形成。
If I said to the average American, oh by the way The Buffett Rule,
如果我对美国民众说，别忘了还有“巴菲特规则”，
Let's take what Warren Buffet has rightfully said.
这可是巴菲特自己倡议的，
He pays a lower tax rate than his secretary or the clerks who work in his office.
他说自己缴税的税率还没有他办公室的秘书多。
Warren Buffet said that's wrong. The average American would say that's wrong.
他自己说美国税收体制不合理。普通民众说它不合理。
The average American would say we should close the hedge fund loophole.
普通大众说我们应该修复对冲基金的漏洞。
Why does a hedge fund manager, billionaire hedge fund manager pay less in taxes
那么为什么一个亿万资产的对冲经理，他所缴纳的税率
than the woman who cleans his beach house or the man who flies his private jet?
要少于一个清理海边别墅的人，一个开私人飞机的人？
So, that would be a consensus position I think in this country that those in equation not be allowable.
所以在这个问题上，人民的意愿是一致的，这种现象在等式两边的人来说是不可能允许的。
We didn't get to vote on those, John.
这个问题我们无需讨论。
Let's go to the other side, which is so, people look at it.
让我们从另一个层面去说，民众会看到一种情况就是，
They say the federal government has a tremendous amount of money.
他们说联邦政府资金充沛。
The city governments have a tremendous amount of money,
市政府资金充沛。
They've spent all those money over the past 40 years, yet we still have intractable poverty.
过去四十年以来，政府花了很多钱，但贫困问题依然难解决。
We still have areas that seemingly we can't fix with money and everything else.
还有许多领域的问题，许多问题我们无法用资金或其它方法来解决。
How do you convince them that more intervention,
那你将如何告诉他们，我们利用更多介入的办法，
what do we do with those areas that seem to be impervious to those kinds of interventions?
但是许多领域的问题似乎很难入手解决？
I think if you say has had there been instances where government was bureaucratic and inefficient
你是想说，是不是政府出现了官僚主义，办事效率低，
or you know, politics intruding in the equation, money wasn't spent well, of course.
政治介入，资金没有用到实处等，我告诉你当然有。
But I think we know the basics do work. Investment education works.
但是我们的基础项目还在运作着。比如说投资教育。
Investment infrastructure works.
比如说基础设施投资。
It has historically for this country.
这些项目在美国存在了很长时间。
From the end of World War II, through the 1970s, we were booming.
从二战结束以后，20世纪70年代的美国开始崛起。
There was actually middle class because we invested.
由于我们的投资，我们出现了大量中产阶级。
What about breaking up?
打破它可以吗？
You know, we've created neighborhood through policies, segregationist policies, economic policies, etc.
我们通过大量政策，比如说分离主义政策，经济政策等来创建社区，
that have made it very difficult for interventions to permeate those areas.
这些政策让我们很难渗透到一些领域。
What about breaking those up so that people don't feel so trapped?
我们可不可以打破它，这样人们也就不会感到被束缚呢？
One of the things, I think you're right.
我认为你的想法是正确的。
One of the ways you do is you build a lot of affordable housing.
我们可以来建造更多经济适用房。
In this city, we have a plan for 200,000 units of affordable housing for half a million people.
在纽约城，我们计划为50万人建造20万套适用房的计划。
That's the only way New York City is gonna continue to be a city for every kind of people
为了让纽约城适应各类人群，建造大量适用房
if we create a lot of affordable housing.
是唯一的方法。
In the process, you actually start to bring different communities together in the same place.
通过这种方式，我们将各类不同社区放在同一片区域。
You actually start to integrate. That is one of the beginnings of a bigger change.
各个社区开始融合。这将是大变革的开始。
It'd be nice to see 200,000 affordable units in New York because that will bring the total up to 200,000.
非常高兴能看到纽约城的20万套经济适用房，整个适用房的数量也将上升到20万套。
Done your background research! I'm impressed!
你做了调查！这让我很惊讶。
