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I know you don't like that "legend" business. I don't.
我知道你不喜欢被称作“传奇”。的确。
Why not, Marian? Because you are somewhat of a legend.
玛丽安，为什么不喜欢？因为你算是个传奇。
You've been doing this for a long time, and you're still there as founder and president.
这事你已经做了很久了，你现在还是基金会的创始人和总裁。
Well, because my daddy raised us and my mother raised us to serve, and we are servant-leaders.
因为我的父母教我们的就是要服务人，我们是服务型的领导者。
And it is not about external things or labels, and I feel like the luckiest person in the world
这不在于外在的东西或标签，我觉得我是世界上最幸运的人，
having been born at the intersection of great needs and great injustices and great opportunities to change them.
我出生在有极大需求和极大不公的交叉口，且有极大的机会去改变它们。
So I just feel very grateful that I could serve and make a difference.
所以，我非常感恩，感谢我可以服务他人，让事物有所不同。
What a beautiful way of saying it.
这样说真美妙。
You grew up in the American South, and like all children, a lot of who you became was molded by your parents.
你在美国南方长大，和所有的孩子一样，你会变成什么样的人有很大一部分是由你的父母塑造而成。
Tell me: What did they teach you about movement-building?
说一下关于组织运动他们教了你什么？
I had extraordinary parents. I was so lucky. My mother was the best organizer I ever knew.
我有非常出色的父母。我好幸运。我母亲是我见过最棒的组织者。
And she always insisted, even back then, on having her own dime.
即使在当时，她也总是坚持要有自己的钱。
She started her dairy so that she could have her penny,
她开了她自己的乳品店，自己赚钱，
and that sense of independence has certainly been passed on to me.
那种独立感肯定有传下来给我。
My daddy was a minister, and they were real partners.
我爸爸是牧师，他们是真搭挡。
And my oldest sibling is a sister, I'm the youngest, and there are three boys in between.
我最年长的手足是我的姐姐，我是家中最小的，上面还有三个哥哥。
But I always knew I was as smart as my brothers.
但我一直都知道，我和我的哥哥们一样聪明。
I always was a tomboy. I always had the same high aspirations that they had.
我一直都很男孩子气。我一直都跟他们一样有很高的志向。
But most importantly, we were terribly blessed,
但最重要的是我们非常有福气，
even though we were growing up in a very segregated small town in South Carolina -- we knew it was wrong.
即使我们成长的地方是南卡罗来纳州一个种族隔离十分严重的小镇--我们知道那是错的。
I always knew, from the time I was four years old, that I wasn't going to accept being put into slots.
我一直都知道，从四岁起我就知道，我不会接受被放到框框里。
But Daddy and Mama always had the sense that it was not us, it was the outside world,
但爸妈一直都有个观念，问题不在我们，而在于外面的世界，
but you have the capacity to grow up to change it, and I began to do that very early on.
但你有机会成长，然后去改变它，而我很早就开始这么做了。
But most importantly, they were the best role models, because they said:
但最重要的是他们是最好的模范，因为他们说：
if you see a need, don't ask why somebody doesn't do it. See what you can do.
如果你看到有需要的地方，不要问为什么没人去帮忙。而要看看你能做什么。
There was no home for the aged in our hometown.
在我们的家乡没有老人之家。
And Reverend Reddick, who had what we know now, 50 years later, as Alzheimer's, and he began to wander the streets.
雷迪克牧师得了我们在五十年后的现在所知的阿兹海默症，他开始在街头游荡。
And so Daddy and Mama figured out he needed a place to go, so we started a home for the aged.
我父母认为他需要一个去处，所以我们创立了一个老人之家。
Children had to cook and clean and serve. We didn't like it at the time,
孩子们得要煮菜、清理、服务。那时我们并不喜欢做这些，
but that's how we learned that it was our obligation to take care of those who couldn't take care of themselves.
但我们也因此学到我们有义务去照顾那些不能照顾自己的人。
I had 12 foster sisters and brothers.
我有十二位养兄弟姐妹。
My mother took them in after we left home, and she took them in before we left home.
我母亲在我们离家前、离家后收养了他们。
And again, whenever you see a need, you try to fulfill it.
同样的，当你发现有需要的地方就试着去成就它。
God runs, Daddy used to say, a full employment economy.
以前爸爸总会说，在上帝主导的经济中人人都有工作。
And so if you just follow the need, you will never lack for something to do or a real purpose in life.
所以，你只要跟着需要走，你永远不会没事可做，也不缺人生目标。
And every issue that the Children's Defense Fund works on today comes out of my childhood in a very personal way.
今天，儿童保护基金所处理的每一个议题都来自我的童年，与我息息相关。
Little Johnny Harrington, who lived three doors down from me, stepped on a nail;
住在我家旁边第三间房子的小约翰尼·哈林顿踩到了一根钉子，他
he lived with his grandmother, got tetanus, went to the hospital, no tetanus shots, he died.
和他的祖母同住，他得了破伤风去医院，那里却没有破伤风针可打，他便死了。
He was 11 years old. I remember that.
他才十一岁。我记得很清楚。
An accident in front of our highway, turns out to have been two white truck drivers and a migrant family that happened to be black.
在我们家前的公路上发生起意外，发现是有两名白人卡车司机，还有一个移民家庭，而他们刚好是黑人。
We all ran out to help. It was in the front of a church,
我们全都跑去帮忙。那是在教堂前面，
and the ambulance came, saw that the white truck drivers were not injured,
救护车来了，看到白人卡车司机没有受伤，
saw the black migrant workers were, turned around and left them. I never forgot that.
看到黑人移工有受伤，便转身离开，丢下他们。我永远不会忘记这件事。
And immunizations was one of the first things I worked on at the Children's Defense Fund
我在儿童保护基金最先开始的事工之一就是免疫接种，
to make sure that every child gets immunized against preventable diseases. Unequal schools...
确保每个孩子对可预防的疾病都有免疫接种。不平等的学校...
Separate and unequal, hand-me-downs from the white schools.
隔离且不平等是从白人学校传下来的。
But we always had books in our house. Daddy was a great reader.
但我们的家里都一定有书。爸爸是个很棒的读者。
He used to make me read every night with him. I'd have to sit for 15 or 20 minutes.
以前，他会要我每晚和他一起读书。我得要读15或20分钟。
One day I put a "True Confessions" inside a "Life Magazine" and he asked me to read it out loud.
有一天，我在《生活杂志》中夹了一本《真情天外来》，他要我大声念出来。
I never read a "True Confessions" again.
我从此再也不读《真情天外来》了。
But they were great readers. We always had books before we had a second pair of shoes, and that was very important.
但父母亲是很棒的读者。我们总是先买书，然后才有第二双鞋子，那非常的重要。
And although we had hand-me-down books for the black schools and hand-me-down everythings, it was a great need.
虽然我们有黑人学校的二手书，还有各种二手的东西，但我们非常地需要书。
He made it clear that reading was the window to the outside world, and so that was a great gift from them.
他说得很明白，阅读是通往外面世界的一扇窗，所以，这是他们给我的一个很棒的礼物。
But the reinforced lesson was that God runs a full employment economy,
但更深刻教训则是上帝主导的经济中人人有工作，
and that if you just follow the need, you will never lack for a purpose in life, and that has been so for me.
你只要跟着需要走，你永远不会缺人生目标，对我而言这一向是如此。
We had a very segregated small town. I was a rebel from the time I was four or five.
我们的小镇种族隔离非常严重。我从四或五岁时就很叛逆。
I went out to a department store and there was "white" and "black" water signs,
我跑出去到一家百货公司，饮用水上有“白人”和“黑人”的标志，
but I didn't know that and didn't pay much attention to that, and I was with one of my Sunday school teachers.
但我不知道，也没有多注意我和一位主日学校的老师同行。
I drank out of the wrong water fountain, and she jerked me away,
我喝水时用错了饮水机，她猛力把我拉开，
and I didn't know what had happened, and then she explained to me about black and white water.
我不知道发生了什么事，然后她向我解释，水也有分黑人用的和白人用的。
I didn't know that, and after that, I went home, took my little wounded psyche to my parents,
我之前不知道这些，之后我回到家，带着我那受伤的小小心灵去找我父母，
and told them what had happened, and said, "What's wrong with me?"
告诉他们发生了什么事，并说：“我有什么问题？”
And they said, "It wasn't much wrong with you. It's what's wrong with the system."
他们说：“你没有什么问题。有问题的是体制。”
And I used to go then secretly and switch water signs everywhere I went. And it felt so good.
我后来不论到哪里都会偷偷把饮用水的标志对调。那感觉真好。
There is no question that this legend is a bit of a rebel, and has been for a long time.
毋庸置疑，这个传奇的确有点叛逆，并且从很久以前就是如此了。
So you started your work as an attorney and with the Civil Rights Movement,
你开始了律师的工作，并参与“非裔美国人民权运动”，
and you worked with Dr. King on the original Poor People's Campaign.
而你和金恩博士也在最早的“穷人运动”合作过。
And then you made this decision, 45 years ago, to set up a national advocacy campaign for children.
接着，四十五年前，你决定组织一个全国性为孩子发声的运动。
Why did you choose that particular service, to children?
为什么你特别选定这样为孩子的服务？
Well, because so many of the things that I saw in Mississippi and across the South had to do with children.
嗯，因为我在密西西比州以及南方各地看到的许多事都和孩子有关。
I saw children with bloated bellies in this country who were close to starvation, who were hungry, who were without clothes,
我在这个国家看过孩子的腹部膨胀起来，濒临饿死，他们很饥饿，他们没有衣服，
and nobody wanted to believe that there were children who were starving, and that's a slow process.
没有人愿意相信有孩子在挨饿，那是个缓慢的过程。
And nobody wanted to listen. Every congressman that would come to Mississippi,
没有人想要听。只要有国会议员来到密西西比，
I'd say, "Go see," and most of them didn't want to do anything about it. But I saw grinding poverty.
我就会说：“去看看”，而他们通常都不想为此做什么。但我看到完全的贫困。
The state of Mississippi wanted, during voter registration efforts
密西西比州想要--那时正在帮选民登记，
and with outside white kids coming in to help black citizens register to vote
加上其他州的白人小孩也来协助黑人公民登记投票，
they wanted everybody to leave the state, so they were trying to starve them out.
他们想要每个人都离开这个州，他们想让他们饿死。他们
And they switched from free food commodities to food stamps that cost two dollars.
出售政府提供的免费食品，要价二美元的食物券。
People had no income, and nobody in America wanted to believe that there was anybody in America without any income.
人们没有收入，而美国没有人想要相信在美国会有人没有任何收入。
Well, I knew hundreds of them, thousands of them. And malnutrition was becoming a big problem.
我知道数百个、数千个没收入的人。营养不良已成为一大问题。
And so one of these days came Dr. King down on a number of things we were fighting to get the Head Start program
有一天，金恩博士到了南部，我们在为一些事抗争，我们要帮“启蒙计划”，
which the state of Mississippi turned down -- refinanced.
一个被州政府拒绝的计划，再次筹款。
And he went into a center that the poor community was running without any help,
他进入一个由贫穷小区在没有协助的情况下所经营的中心，
and he saw a teacher carve up an apple for eight or 10 children, and he had to run out, because he was in tears.
他看到一位老师把一个苹果切瓣分给8到10个孩子，他必须要跑到外头去，因为他已泪流满面。
He couldn't believe it. But only when Robert Kennedy decided he would come
他无法置信。但当罗伯特·肯尼迪决定要来时，
I had gone to testify about the Head Start program, because they were attacking.
我开始为“启蒙计划”辩护，因为他们在攻击它。
And I asked, please, come and see yourself, and when you come and see, see hungry people and see starving children.
我说：拜托，请你们自己来看看，当你们来看时，看看饥饿的人，看看饿坏的孩子。
And they came, and he brought the press, and that began to get the movement going.
他们来了，他带了媒体来，在那之后这运动才开始展开。
But they wanted to push all the poor people to go north and to get away from being voters.
但他们想要把所有贫穷的人推到北方去，不要来投票。
And I'm proud of Mike Espy. Even though he lost last night, he'll win one of these days.
我为麦克·艾斯比感到骄傲。昨晚他虽然输了，但他总有一天会赢的。
But you wouldn't have seen such grinding poverty,
但你本来并不会看到如此完全的贫困，
and the outside white kids who'd come in to help register voters in the 1964 Summer Project where we lost those three young men.
还有其他州的白人小孩参与1964年的“自由之夏”计划，来协助登记投票，我们当时也失去了三个年轻人。
But once they left, the press left, and there was just massive need, and people were trying to push the poor out.
但在他们离开后，媒体也离开了，只剩下非常多需要帮助的缺口，大家试着要把穷人给推出去。
And so, you know, Head Start came, and we applied for it, because the state turned it down.
所以，你知道的，“启蒙计划”开始实施，我们去申请，因为州政府把它驳回。
And that's true of a lot of states that don't take Medicaid these days.
很多不接受美国医疗保险的州都是如此。
And we ran the largest Head Start program in the nation, and it changed their lives.
我们做的“启蒙计划”是全国最大的，它改变了他们的生命。
They had books that had children who looked like them in it, and we were attacked all over the place.
他们书里面的孩子长的和他们一样，而我们被攻击得体无完肤。
But the bottom line was that Mississippi gave birth to the Children's Defense Fund in many ways,
总之，就许多层面上来说，密西西比州让儿童保护基金诞生了，
and it also occurred to me that children and preventive investment,
我也出现这样的想法：孩子预防性投资
and avoiding costly care and failure and neglect, was a more strategic way to proceed.
与避免昂贵的照护、失败和忽视，才是有助于成功迈进的方法。
And so the Children's Defense Fund was born out of the Poor People's Campaign.
儿童保护基金是穷人运动的产物。
But it was pretty clear that whatever you called black independent or brown independent was going to have a shrinking constituency.
但很清楚的是，不论你怎么称呼，叫黑人独立也好，叫混血独立也好，选区将会被缩小。谁会
And who can be mad at a two-month-old baby or at a two-year-old toddler? A lot of people can be.
对两个月大的婴儿或两岁的婴儿生气？很多人会。
They don't want to feed them, neither, from what we've seen.
就我们看来，他们谁都不想喂。
But it was the right judgment to make.
但那是对的决定。
And so out of the privilege of serving as the Poor People's Campaign coordinator for policy for two years,
我有幸在“穷人运动”担任两年的政策协调员，
and there were two of them, and it was not a failure,
那时我们有两位，那运动不是个失败，
because the seeds of change get planted and have to have people who are scut workers and follow up.
因为改变的种子已被种下，它需要有刻苦耐劳人来贯彻到底。
And I'm a good scut worker and a persistent person.
我十分的刻苦耐劳，我也是个持之以恒的人。
And you know, as a result, I would say that all those people on food stamps today
因为这样，我觉得今天所有领食物券的人，
ought to thank those poor people in the mud in Resurrection City.
都该感谢那些在复活市奋斗的穷人。
But it takes a lot of follow-up, detailed work -- and never going away.
但那需要很多缜密的后续工作--并且永不放弃。
And you've been doing it for 45 years, and you've seen some amazing outcomes.
你做这事已有45年，你也看过一些美妙的成果。
What are you proudest of out of the Children's Defense Fund?
对于儿童保护基金，你最引以为傲的是什么？
Well, I think the children now have sort of become a mainstream issue.
我想儿童在现今大概已是个主流议题了。
We have got lots of new laws. Millions of children are getting food.
我们引进了许多新法条。数百万的孩子现在有食物吃。
Millions of children are getting a head start.
数百万的孩子得受启蒙。
Millions of children are getting Head Start and have gotten a head start,
数百万的孩子接受了“启蒙计划”，也有了起跑优势，
and the Child Health Insurance Program, CHIP, Medicaid expansions for children.
还有儿童健保计划，美国医疗保险也扩及至儿童。
We've been trying to reform the child welfare system for decades.
我们试着改造儿福系统已有数十年。
We finally got a big breakthrough this year, and it says, be ready with the proposals when somebody's ready to move,
我们在今年终于有个重大突破，这是“把你的提案准备好，等待有人要开始改变的时刻”，
and sometimes it takes five years, 10 years, 20 years, but you're there.
这有时要花上5年，10年或20年，但你做到了。
I've been trying to keep children out of foster care and out of institutions
我一直试着不让孩子进到寄养和照顾机构中，
and with their families, with preventive services. That got passed.
让他们可以和家人同住，并提供预防性服务。这提议被通过了。
But there are millions of children who have hope, who have access to early childhood.
数百万的孩子有了希望。他们有了早期教育。
Now, we are not finished, and we are not going to ever feel finished until we end child poverty in the richest nation on earth.
现在我们还没有完成，直到儿童贫困不再出现于这世上最富有的国家为止，我们都永远都不会觉得结束。
It's just ridiculous that we have to be demanding that.
这还要我们去要求实在是可笑。
And there are so many of the problems in spite of the successes,
尽管有些成功，许多地问题依然存在，
and thank you for going through some of them, Marian -- the Freedom Schools,
玛丽安，谢谢你为我们走过这一些自由学校，
the generations of children now who have gone through Children's Defense Fund programs.
现在好几世代的儿童得以参与儿童保护基金的计划。
But when you look around the world, in this country, the United States, and in other countries,
但当你看看世界，在这个国家，美国，还有其他的国家里，
there are still so many problems. What worries you the most?
还存在着好多问题。什么使你最担心？
What worries me is how irresponsible we adults in power have been in passing on a healthier earth.
在把更健康的世界交给下一代这事上，我们有能力的大人不负责任的态度令我担心。
And it worries me when I read the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists"
当我读《原子科学家公报》，
and see now that we are two minutes from midnight, and that's gotten closer.
然后看到我们再两过分钟就要到午夜，我便很担心。这又更近了。
We have put our future and our children's future and safety at risk in a world that is still too much governed by violence.
在这个被过多暴力统治的世界，我们拿我们孩子的未来和安全当赌注。
We must end that. We must stop investing in war and start investing in the young and in peace,
我们得终结这事。我们得停止在战争上投资，转而投资年轻世代与和平，
and we are really so far away from doing that.
我们离那一步还好远。
And I don't want my grandchildren to have to fight these battles all over again, and so I get more radical.
我不想让我的孙辈还得再次为这些事来抗争，所以我变得更激进。
The older I get, the more radical I get,
我越老越激进，因为
because there are just some things that we as adults have to do for the next generations.
有些事是我们大人得为下一代做的。
And I looked at the sacrifices of Mrs. Hamer and all those people in Mississippi who risked their lives to give us a better life.
我看到了海默女士的牺牲，还有那些在密西西比州为了要给我们更好的生活而冒自己生命的人。
But the United States has got to come to grips with its failure to invest in its children,
美国要为未能投资自己的儿童这事来努力，
and it's the Achilles' heel of this nation.
这是我们国家的致命伤。
How can you be one of the biggest economies in the world and you let 13.2 million children go live in poverty,
你身为全世界数一数二有钱的国家，怎么会让1300万的孩童活在贫困之中，
and you let children go homeless when you've got the means to do it?
让孩童无家可归，而其实，你是有办法解决的。
We've got to rethink who we are as a people, be an example for the world. There should be no poverty.
我们得重新思考身为这个国家人民的意义，成为世界的榜样。贫穷不该存在。
In fact, we want to say we're going to end poverty in the world. Just start at home.
其实，我们要说，我们要终结世上的贫穷。就从美国开始。
And we've made real progress, but it's such hard work, and it's going to be our Achilles' heel.
我们已有十足的进展，但那实在很艰难，这将是我们的弱点。
We should stop giving more tax cuts, sorry folks, to billionaires rather than to babies and their health care.
我们应该停止给百万富豪减税，大伙儿抱歉啦，我们应该把钱放在婴儿和他们的健康照护上。
We should get our priorities straight.
我们该把先后次序搞清楚。
That's not right, and it's not cost-effective.
给富人减税是不对的，而且那不符合成本效益。
And the key to this country is going to be an educated child population,
受教育儿童的人数是这个国家关键，
and yet we've got so many children who cannot read or write at the most basic levels.
而我们却有好多的儿童无法读或写最基本的东西。
We're investing in the wrong things, and I wouldn't be upset about anybody having one billion, 10 billion,
我们在错误的东西上投资，我不会对拥有十亿或一百亿元的人生气，
if there were no hungry children, if there were no homeless children, if there were no uneducated children.
只要我们没有饥饿的儿童，只要我们没有无家可归的儿童，只要我们没有未受教育的儿童。
And so it's really about what does it mean to live and lead this life.
这其实在于我们如何过这一生。
Why were we put on this earth? We were put on this earth to make things better for the next generations.
我们为什么被放在这地球上？我们之所以被放在地球上是要为下一代把事情变得更好。
And here we're worrying about climate change and global warming.
我们在担心气候变迁和全球暖化。
And we're looking at, again, I constantly cite -- I look at that "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" every year.
我们也看到，我重申--如我时常提及的我每年都看《原子科学家公报》。
And it says now: "Two minutes to midnight."
它现在说：“两分钟到午夜”。
Are we out of our minds, adults, about passing on a better a world to our children?
大人们，我们疯了吗？难道我们不要将更好的世界交给下一代吗？
That's what our purpose is, to leave a better world for everybody, and the concept of enough for everybody.
我们的使命就是把一个更好的世界留给所有的人，并拥有“够每个人用”的概念。
There should be no hungry children in this world with the rich wealth that we have.
以我们的财富，这世上不该有饥饿的儿童。
And so I can't think of a bigger cause, and I think that I'm driven by my faith.
我想不到更大的使命，我想我的信仰激励了我。
And it's been a privilege to serve, but I always had the best role models in the world.
能够服务一向是我的荣幸，我总有着世上最棒的模范。
Daddy always said God runs a full employment economy,
爸爸总是说上帝主导的经济人人有工作，
and that if you just follow the need, you'll never lack for a purpose in life.
倘若你跟着需要走，你永远不会缺少人生的目标。
And I watched the partnership -- because my mother was a true partner.
我看见这样的合作--因为我母亲是个真正的伙伴。
I always knew I was as smart as my brothers, at least.
我一直都知道我和哥哥一样聪明，至少是这样的。
And we always knew that we were not just to be about ourselves, but that we were here to serve.
我们一直都知道我们不只是关心自己，我们还要服务别人。
Well, Marian, I want to say, on behalf of all the world's children,
玛丽安，谨代表全世界的孩子，我想说：
thank you for your passion, your purpose and your advocacy.
谢谢你的热忱，你的使命和你的发声。
