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Hello, welcome. You are watching a TED Interview series called "How to Deal with Difficult Feelings."
大家好。您正在观看的是TED访谈系列 “如何处理困难的感觉”。
I'm Cloe Shasha Brooks, your host and a curator at TED.
我是克洛伊莎莎布鲁克斯（Cloe Shasha Brooks），是这个节目的主持人，也是TED的策展人。
Now I will be speaking with Valerie Purdie-Greenaway, social psychologist and Columbia University professor.
今天我将采访社会心理学家、哥伦比亚大学教授瓦莱丽-珀迪-格林纳威（Valerie Purdie-Greenaway）。
She directs the Laboratory of Intergroup Relations and the Social Mind, where she researches the us-versus-them mindset with the goal of fostering understanding between groups.
她研究群体间关系，并开设社会心智实验室，她研究我们与他人之间的心态，旨在促进群体之间的相互理解。
And she has wisdom to share about the relationship between feeling like an outsider and anxiety.
针对感觉自己是局外人和焦虑之间的关系这一问题，她将分享自己的真知灼见。
So let's bring on Valerie.
让我们请瓦莱丽上台。
Hello, Valerie, thank you for being here.
你好，瓦莱丽，感谢你来到我们节目。
One of the things I've been excited to ask you about is just, you know, you talk about how there's two ways of seeing anxiety, right?
我想问，你谈到了如何看待焦虑的两种方式，对吗？
Chronic anxiety and context-based anxiety.
慢性焦虑和基于环境的焦虑。
So can you define the two for us?
你能为我们定义这两种方式吗？
There's two ways of thinking about anxiety.
我们有两种思考焦虑的方式。
I think the first way that people traditionally think about anxiety is chronic anxiety.
我认为人们传统上对焦虑的第一种思考方式是慢性焦虑。
We are still in the midst of a pandemic.
我们仍然处于一个大流行病之中。
People are anxious.
人们是焦虑的。
Some others might think of anxiety in terms of their personality, you know, their micromanagers, and these kinds of anxieties are sort of everyday anxieties that are with us for a long period of time.
其他一些人可能认为焦虑是指他们的个性，是他们的微观管理者，这些类型的焦虑是一种日常焦虑，它会长期伴随着我们。
What I study is another kind of anxiety that other people may not be aware of.
我所研究的是另一种焦虑，他人可能没有意识到它。
And this is the anxiety that comes from being part of a social group, whether it's your race, your ethnicity, your gender, your sexual orientation, your size,
这就是作为社会群体的一部分而产生的焦虑，无论是你的种族、你的民族、你的性别、你的性取向、你的体型，
and walking around the world and sort of bumping up to environments where you're stereotyped, where you're "otherwise-d," and that context makes you feel different.
以及在任何世界范围内行走，并在某种程度上碰到你被定型的环境，在那里你是 “另类”，这种背景让你感到与众不同。
And in that moment, you can feel it's the same biological kind of anxiety and stress, but it comes from the context.
在那一刻，你感觉到这是同样的生物焦虑和压力，但它来自于环境。
So I study the kind of stress, anxiety, frustration that stems from being a member of a group that can be stereotyped,
因此，我研究作为一个可能被定型的群体成员所产生的那种压力、焦虑和挫折，
and I study the kinds of contexts that make that happen, whether it's at work, at school, church, in your synagogue,
我研究使之发生的各种背景，无论是在工作、学校、教堂、犹太教堂，
you know, all of the types of contexts that can either intentionally or inadvertently make us feel otherwise, which causes that anxiety.
所有类型的背景都可能有意或无意地使我们感到不同，从而导致这种焦虑。
Yeah. And so, let's say someone's dealing with anxiety in association with a specific context, like being the only person of color in a classroom or the only woman on a team at work.
因此，如果某人正在处理与特定环境有关的焦虑，例如她是教室里唯一的有色人种或工作中团队中唯一的女性。
What would you suggest as strategies for managing that anxiety?
你建议采取什么策略来管理这种焦虑？
The first thing is to just recognize that it's not you.
第一件事就是要认识到这不是你的问题。
If you feel stress, you feel anxiety, it's not you.
如果你感到压力，你感到焦虑，这不是你的问题。
There's not something wrong with you.
这不是你的问题。
There's something wrong with the context.
是环境出了问题。
The second thing is sort of deciding: Is it really worth it?
第二件事是决定性的。这真的值得你焦虑吗？
Do you actually care?
你真的关心这些事吗？
Because not every environment really matters.
因为不是每个环境都真的很重要。
Once you contextualize, once you understand it's not you, you have to create a system of support around you to kind of fact-check your experiences.
一旦你确定了环境，一旦你明白这不是你的问题，你就必须在你周围建立一个支持系统，对你的经历进行基于事实的评判。
For instance, do you have a mentor who is in a similar situation, who came some years before you?
例如，你是否有一个处于类似情况的导师，他比你早来公司一些年？
When you talk to them, they can help you to understand that it's not you.
当你与他们交谈时，他们可以帮助你了解这不是你的问题。
They can help you fact-check.
他们可以帮助你了解事实。
They can help you navigate what's happening.
他们可以帮助你把握正在发生的事情。
I think the other thing which comes out of some research that I have done is when you situate that moment relative to who you are more broadly -- I am bigger than this moment -- sometimes
我认为从我所做的一些研究中得出的另一件事是，当你把那一刻与你是谁联系起来时--我比这一刻更重要--有时
those kinds of affirmations can be incredibly helpful in that moment for sort of reducing that stress.
这些类型的肯定可以在那一刻对减少压力有难以置信的帮助。
Well, let's take one of our audience questions.
好吧，让我们来看看一个来自观众的问题。
So from LinkedIn, someone asks, "What can we do to best support people in our lives who are suffering from context-based anxiety?”
在领英上，有人问：“我们可以做什么来支持我们生活中遭受基于环境而焦虑的人？”
Oh, that's a great question.
哦，这是个好问题。
The question of what we can do to support others in our lives that are experiencing context-based identity is important because oftentimes, it's undetectable.
我们能做什么来支持我们生活中正在经历基于环境身份的人，这个问题很重要，因为很多时候，它是你无法察觉的。
One of the most challenging aspects of a context-based stress -- the scientific term is called "stereotype threat" -- the challenge with that is you have this physiological feeling.
基于环境压力最具挑战性的方面之一 -- 科学术语称之为 “刻板印象威胁”-- 其带来的挑战是你有这种生理感觉。
You might feel stressed, you might feel anxious, you might be overworking.
你可能会感到压力，你可能会感到焦虑，你可能会过度工作。
Are you working at two and three in the morning, like, overworking on a presentation?
你是否在凌晨两点和三点工作，比如，准备演示文稿？
But the problem is, you might not be able to actually detect it in others.
但问题是，你可能无法在别人身上真正发现焦虑。
You can oftentimes understand what situations a partner or person or friend is going into ahead of time and sort of sharing this idea
你经常可以理解伙伴或一个人或朋友提前进入什么情况，并分享这种想法，
that when you're in contexts where you are a solo status, you're the only one, this is something that could happen, this is an experience you could feel.
当你处于独处状态下，你是唯一一个，这是可能发生的事情，这是你可以感受到的经验。
It's not you; it's a common situation.
这不是你一个人面临的问题，这是常见的情况。
I have found over and over and over again, just taking the heat off of an individual to sort of place it back where it's supposed to be in the context is incredibly helpful.
我一次又一次地发现，只要把个人的热度降低，把它放回它应该在的地方，就会有难以置信的帮助。
That's interesting and valuable.
这很有趣，也很有价值。
I mean, one of the things that feels connected to that, too, is obviously, being in these context-based, anxiety-producing situations can create anger and frustration, especially for those who have been affected by violence or injustice.
我感觉与此相关的一件事是，处于这些基于环境的、产生焦虑的情况下会产生愤怒和挫折感，特别是对于那些受到暴力或不公正影响的人。
Can you can you talk more about that flow from anger and frustration to anxiety?
你能谈谈从愤怒、挫折到焦虑的过程吗？
Violence, frustration is, these days, far too familiar to many of us.
如今，暴力、挫折对我们许多人来说并不陌生。
When we think about all that has come out of George Floyd, we think about the continuing challenges that women face in the workplace,
当想到乔治-弗洛伊德所发生的一切，想到妇女在工作场所面临的持续挑战，
we think about the trans community, and what they're dealing with in terms of athletes and athleticism and whether or not they're considered truly part of a sport,
想到变性人群体，以及他们在做运动员和运动能力方面面对的问题，他们是否被认为是运动的一部分，
particularly in women's sports --there are so many different identities that are being challenged right now.
特别在女子运动中 -- 现在有太多不同的身份受到挑战。
And what we find in our research is that there's a natural flow from anxiety, stress, questioning whether, "Is it something about me?"
我们在研究中发现，焦虑、压力、质疑 “是关于我的事情吗？”这是一种自然的过程。
"What is it about my group?" to the shift in understanding that society is seeing and treating you differently, and that causes anger, and that causes frustration.
你会质疑“这是关于我的群体的什么方面？”逐渐转为理解社会在以不同的方式看待和对待你，这种看法会你导致愤怒，有挫折感。
The problem with this is, at the physiological level, it's still stress, and stress is debilitating.
问题是，在生理层面上，它仍然是压力，而这种压力让人疲惫不堪。
It keeps us up at night. It keeps us overeating. It keeps us undereating.
它使我们夜不能寐。它使我们暴饮暴食。它使我们没有食欲。
You look at the early onset of cardiovascular disease.
看一下心血管疾病的早期发病情况就知道了。
The problem is, stress is debilitating.
问题是，压力让人疲惫不堪。
So even though those moments of anger may even make you feel like you can do something,you feel empowered as a group,it still can erode our health.
因此，即使那些愤怒的时刻让你觉得你需要做一些事情。你觉得自己作为一个群体被赋予了权力，但它仍然会侵蚀我们的健康。
And so when I think about inclusive societies, I think about it from a justice perspective.
因此，当我考虑包容性社会时，我从正义的角度来考虑它。
I also think about it from a health perspective, because it's all linked together.
我也从健康的角度来考虑，因为这一切都联系在一起。
Absolutely. Yeah.
是的。
We have another question from the audience. Let's bring that up.
我们有另一个来自观众的问题。
From Facebook: "Is it possible to use anxiety in a positive way?"
这个问题来自脸书。“我们是否有可能以积极的方式应对焦虑？”
It is absolutely a good idea.
这是一个好主意。
And when you understand that you can leverage the power of anxiety in a positive way, you can do a lot of different things.
当你明白你可以以积极的方式利用焦虑的力量，你可以做很多不同的事情。
So, for instance, there's a relationship between anxiety and performance.
因此，举例来说，焦虑和表现之间存在着一种关系。
There's lots of research on this. It's sort of an old idea. And the idea is that some anxiety is good.
这方面有很多研究。这是一种过去的想法。它认为有些焦虑是好的。
My doctoral advisor, Claude Steele, after giving thousands of talks and writing books, I would ask him, "Do you still get anxious on the first day of class?"
我的博士生导师克劳德-斯蒂尔（Claude Steele）在做了数千次演讲和写书无数之后，我问他：“你在上课的第一天仍然会焦虑吗？”
And he said to me, "Valerie, when you stop being nervous the first day of class, it's time to retire."
他对我说：“瓦莱丽，当你在上课的第一天不再紧张时，就是退休的时候了。”
Because that's a good kind of anxiety, right?
因为那是一种好的焦虑，不是吗？
But the problem is, that anxiety can also shift to being debilitated, where you're just stressed, you start to feel frazzled, you start to feel like your brain isn't working properly.
但问题是，这种焦虑也可能让人疲惫不堪，你压力大，开始感到焦头烂额，感到大脑不能正常工作。
And so some anxiety is good. It's sort of like the sweet spot of anxiety.
但有些焦虑是好的。这有点像焦虑的甜蜜点。
And then if you keep going, it can become debilitating and erode performance.
然后如果你继续下去，它可能会走下滑路，并让你难受。
So it's the back-and-forth between some is good, too much is bad, that we need to be thinking about, both as ourselves as individuals and also when we're part of organizations.
因此，有一些压力是好的，过多的压力是坏的，我们在之间的来回转换，无论是作为个人还是作为组织的一部分皆是如此。
We have a new question from the audience. Let's bring that one up, please.
有一个来自观众的新问题。让我们看看是什么问题，谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
OK, Kristin Sánchez Salas from LinkedIn says, "What can you do if your context-based anxiety is provoked by a colleague, client, superior or someone you work with regularly?”
好的，来自领英的Kristin Sánchez Salas说，“如果你基于环境的焦虑是由一个同事引起的，你可以做什么来解决？客户、上司或经常与你共事的人激起了你的环境焦虑，你该怎么办？”
My strategy is: first time, forgiveness.
我的策略是：第一次，宽恕。
Sometimes, fact-checking: What is it that you actually heard? What is it that someone said?
有时，认清事实。你真正听到的是什么？他们说的是什么？
Trying to understand someone's intentions, that's, I think, the first step.
试图理解他人的意图，我想这是第一步。
The second step is, this is something that is not going to be tolerated, because it impacts your ability to thrive, and it impacts other people who are members of their group.
第二步是，这是不会被容忍的事情，因为它影响到你的能力，影响到作为他们团体成员的其他人的茁壮成长。
So this becomes a manager issue. This becomes a leadership issue.
因此，这成为一个经理人的问题。这变成了一个领导性的问题。
And true inclusive leadership is taking a stand and saying "We're not doing this," and then setting the groundwork so it doesn't happen again.
而真正的包容性领导力是采取一种立场，说 “我们不会这样做”，奠定这个基础，这样就不会再发生。
Yeah, that's really great advice.
这真的是很好的建议。
But we're almost at the end, so I'm just going to ask you one final question leading from that, which is:
但我们的节目要接近尾声了，所以我想问你一个最后的问题，
If you're told that you are the cause of context-based anxiety, what's the first thing you should do?
如果有人告诉你，你是基于环境焦虑，那么你应该做的第一件事是什么？
If you're told that you are the cause of context-based anxiety, remember my face: it's not you, it's the situation that you are in.
如果有人告诉你，你是基于环境焦虑，请记住我说的：这不是由你决定的，是你所处的情况决定的。
Trust your judgment, particularly if you have experienced solo status once, you've experienced it again.
相信你的判断，特别是如果你已经经历过一次独处状态，又再经历了一次。
If you've been stereotyped once, you've probably had this experience over and over.
如果你已经被别人用刻板印象对待过，你可能已经多次有这种经历。
So trust your intuition that it's not you bringing paranoia to the workplace, that these kind of stereotypes and otherisms are rife and alive.
所以要相信你的直觉，不是你给工作场所带来了偏执，这种刻板印象和他人主义是到处泛滥的。
I think that's the first thing.
这是第一件事。
And then the second thing is having these layers of support around mentors and sponsors, who can tell you that you are doing just fine, there's something amiss in this environment.
第二件事是在导师和赞助人周围获取支持，他们可以告诉你，你做得很好，只是你在的这个环境不好。
That layer of support is incredibly important. It's important for everyone.
这种支持是非常重要的。它对每个人都很重要。
But if you're a member of a social group that contends with these kinds of challenges in society, that layer of support that you can go after in terms of creating robust social networks, that is a key.
但是，如果你是一个社会团体的成员，在社会中与这些类型的挑战作斗争，那么你可以在创建强大的社会网络方面去获得那支持，这是很关键的。
This has been so valuable, Valerie.
这一直是非常有价值的，瓦莱丽。
Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me.
再次感谢你来到我们节目。
Thank you so much.
非常感谢。
