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Hello, everyone and welcome to America Under the Microscope advanced episode. Hi, Lulu.

Hi. James.

So let's continue our talk about addiction and support groups from our basic episode.

I was going to ask you, what is the general view on addiction, like what's the general American view?

It's bad.

Yeah. But what about these people who are trying to join the support groups and trying to kick addictions?

OK. I know what you mean. In general, Americans highly respect people who are kicking addictions.

Uh.

Even people who don't exactly maybe respect the methods that the support groups use, most Americans look highly upon people like they realized they had a problem, they're trying to do what's necessary to make their life better and fix things. They're turning their lives around and that's highly respected in American culture.

Can I just ask you a more… probably give you a more specific scenario? For example, if your average American one day meets someone and this person accidentally let them know oh, that I just got my 1-year chip, 1-year clean, whatever it is if it's drug or if it's alcohol, it's gambling. Well, the person who heard this message, would they think oh, yeah, so you were a former addict or would they focus more on...?

They would most likely say congratulations. So they all know it's like they were an addict, but most Americans know addicts, I’ve known addicts, no, they wouldn't shame them. Most people wouldn't change them. I can't say everybody wouldn't, but the general culture wouldn't shame them. Most people say you got your 1-year chip, that's great. Usually, we won't dig deeper because that's a sensitive topic for a person. And people's addictions are very personal, so…

True.

Unless you are family or someone that they really trust.

They wouldn't tell you anyway.

They wouldn't tell you.

It's also not polite to ask for more.

No. You can just say congratulations. And that'll be the end of that conversation.

Yeah, and interestingly, you also see this in movies and TV shows. A lot of the addicts especially like people who are addicted to alcohol, they're not like, for example, for lack of a better word bottom of the social letter, some of them, they actually hold very important positions and because of the stress they drink and then they turn their life around.

They are at all levels of society and people who become sober and have gone through programs or anywhere from famous actors to just everyday people, it's not just something that we consider bottom of the barrel. It'd be all walks of life.

Now let's move back to the actual… the so-called program.

Uh.

It's not just people sharing their life story. It's also… there's 12 steps.

We didn't mention this in the basic episode because it's really complex, but all these programs basically follow what's called the 12-step program.

A 12-step program.

Which…I don't know what all the steps are because I can't remember them all, but basically, part of it is like admitting you have a problem and then parts of it you have to make amends, but it's controversial because one of the 12 steps is you have to give yourself up to meaning that you have no control.

It's this whole slogan about let go and let God.

Yeah, kind of.

What if you don't believe in any religion?

They say that's not important. But the truth is there's a lot of religious messaging in these support groups, this is why there had churches in a lot of cases, and a lot of people use religion as one of the tools to break the addiction.

But then they just get addicted to religion.

That happens. Yes. So the truth is about a lot of these programs is something they don’t like to talk about is they fail more than they succeed.

Because… I guess they talked about that on Mom as well. You get almost like addicted to go into the group because you feel like you personally don't have any power, because that's what the whole program emphasizes.

You have no power over this, you got to admit that you have no power. What ends up happening is for a lot of people they just end up shifting addiction.

Yeah. Because if they have addictive personality, then they'll just move on from one thing to another.

So might be… they might become addicted to the group itself like you mentioned, they might become addicted to religion. They might… common ones like they go from alcohol to like smoking, gambling. So the big problem with it is like addiction is complicated you can't apply a one size fits all solution to it.

Yeah.

Because people are complicated.

Yeah, I remember talking to some British people about this. This is why initially I was asking you it seems more popular in the US, then it seems like a lot of people they don't really understand why you would tell someone who struggling with addiction like you are powerless, you are powerless. If you keep emphasizing this message, they wouldn't feel empowered to kick the habit. They would actually feel like they can just blame this on everyone else, on whatever instead of themselves.

Like it's not me, it's the alcohol. Yeah, or it's not me, it's the drugs.

Actually, they are TV shows or programs that makes fun of that sort of pokes fun at that sort of attitude.

Yeah, because that’s actually the modern medical view right now, that's a bad message to send. Because the more modern ideas, if you talk to more modern therapists, psychologists and doctors, they'll tell you in America, if you want to fight their addiction, you have to get to the root of the diction, you have to find out what is driving the behavior for the person to make this choice.

True.

Because they had to make the choice to use alcohol, to basically what we call self-medicate.

Yeah, so with any of these substance abuse, I think obviously if you dig further, there's always a reason whether it's stress or it’s childhood trauma. There's always a reason and without healing that, without addressing that, you're always going to run the risk of falling off the wagon.

Yeah, you're always, you're almost guaranteed to fall off the wagon. So what they recommend nowadays, if you talk to doctors, what they'd recommend for fighting addiction, they might recommend support groups, but that are not 12-step. Just, just general support. So they just place where you can talk and share because that can help people. If they are having cravings to talk about them, they also talk about talking to a license therapist who actually is trained in addiction to help people navigate the problem, help them to get to that root problem. Because in some cases medication… because there are nowadays medication that can help with addiction. And the doctors can help with this. So there's a lot more we can do. And it's needs to be more…

It's just needs to be more scientific. Yeah, I guess sometimes it's not a simple will power sort of thing or having a few friends there to support you, like you said addiction to anything is much more complex than that. In China, we don't really talk about alcoholism that much, but what you hear is like sort of like shopping addiction or…

Video game addiction.

… video game addiction which cost a huge controversy a few years back. But another thing that really makes me think, especially when I was watching programs like Mom, they had this one episode of one of the ladies who used to go to AA with all the other characters, she basically stopped going and they went to check on her to see if she fell off the wagon and she says, you know what, I now turned my life around. I realized my root problem was not really alcohol, it was because of my life style. Now that I my life style is healthier, I feel like I can handle a drink or two without binge drinking.

Uh.

And then this whole group, initially, they were trying to say, no, no, you cannot control it. This is not something you can control. You just one step away from falling off the wagon. This strikes me as odd because like you said, if you addressed the root problem, then you have to power to make that choice, to drink responsibly or do things in moderation instead of binge it.

Right. I’m a full believer that it's… you fix the problem, then you leave it up to the person they have to be able to make the decision. You can't say they're powerless, that does nothing. That doesn't help anybody.

Yeah.

So that actually can be part of the therapies, not actually ending the dependence on alcohol. It's just going to have a healthy relationship with alcohol.

Exactly. Like any addiction is all about moderation. I think the ultimate proof that you have overcome an addiction is not that you don't do this thing ever, apart from drugs, the sign that you are fully recovered is not really you don't do it at all, is more you can control how much you do it.

Right. Just like I can control my coffee intake, but I don't want to.

Alright. I know this is a big topic, it's a heavy topic, but if you feel like you have any sorts of stories with any sorts of addiction, for example, like shopping addiction, some of the lighter ones. If you feel like sharing, can't wait to see your comment in the comment section.

Yeah. We look forward to hearing from you.

For example, I have an addiction of collecting notebooks that I would never ever use.

I’m addicted to caffeine.

I think we will figure that out. On that note, we'll see you next time.

Bye everyone.

Bye.