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第237期:《知乎哲也》-爱欲,的哲学探讨

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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Happy Hour. 欢迎回到酒馆,今天我们有一位老朋友又回来了。


Hi, TJ.

Hey, hello Lulu. Nice to see you again after all this year.

QQ截图20211009095428.jpg

We're still not seeing each other's faces right at the moment.

Right

So the situation is this, I know a lot of you really like TJ and some of you have been asking where has he gone? So TJ, why don't you tell us where have you been?

Well, I actually haven't gone anywhere, I was trapped in the UK when we did the first few podcasts, and then we said when I get back to China we can do it in person, and it'll be even better, but I am still here. 我在英国一年半了。

And you still don't know when you can come back?

Right, I can only想念华夏, really think of China.

But a good thing is you got into a program in FuDan, right?

Right, I've gone back to study at FuDan university, which I'm really enjoying…

Philosophy?

Yeah, more philosophy. Of course the teachers there are very very smart people, so it's really good to meet people with such depth of knowledge.

Yeah, hopefully you can get back soon.

Hopefully, my friends all say that even though I’m single, that I am married to China, so I think that's a good way of talking about… because we are gonna talk about love.

Ok, but before we get started, I just wanted to say that from now on, TJ is going to be a guest speaker regularly again. It's like with Brad, we talk about geeky stuff; with TJ, we're definitely going to talk about philosophy stuff.

So we are going to do this new segment called Let's Philosophize, 中文名叫【知乎哲也】. All right, let's get started. You said we're gonna talk about love, right?

Yeah, have you ever been in love Lulu.

Of course, I have.

You've probably been in love with a lot of different things. Like when we eating together you say I love this restaurant or I love this dish, but that's a different kind of love.

I also love reading.

Right, love reading, hobbies, but we also hopefully love people too, right?

Yeah, of course.

Family and our friends. That's we use the word love in a lot of different ways. And one of the interesting things to do is to try and look at the different types of love. And as usual, the Greeks have a lot of different ways to talk about love.

So I would love it if we could talk a little bit more about the Greek definitions of love and what they mean to us. And hopefully the listeners will be able to think about what it means for them as well.

Yeah, definitely.

I'm sure the Greeks had all sorts of words about love and different types of love. What type of love shall we start with?

I think we can start with the classic love. The love that almost every pop song is written about this kind of love.

Ah, romantic love.

And novels, plays, movies, right romantic love, or Eros as the Greeks call it. But romantic love has some layers, when they talk about Eros, we have another word in English called Puppy Love. And this is when you just usually you're 16,17 and you're just infatuated with somebody, you just really want to be around them all the time.

Puppy love is such a cute word.


We'll talk about maybe real puppy love a little bit later, but this is a very strong desire to maybe kiss the other person too, right, you really want to be close to them.

That's what I wanted to say because Puppy Love seems to focus on intimacy romance, but Eros is also linked with word erotic, right? It's also carnal desire, 也有这种肉欲lust, isn't it?

Right, so this is where we get the root of a lot of English words is from Greek as I'm sure the listeners already know, but that physical desire to be close to something beautiful; and the carnal like you said desire, this is erotic love.

And I think that most people feel this, some people would use the word, asexual, English for somebody that doesn't feel this kind of attractions of people. They don't have this kind of sexual attraction, but most people know this, right, you look at somebody very beautiful.

Yeah, I mean either you're talking about celebrities or you're just talking about people who meet each other in everyday life like love at first sight, that's eros.

No, we can have eros for lots of…often this is the easiest way because obviously when I see a picture of a beautiful lady, I don't love her because of her personality, I don't know her personality, I don't love her for any reason other than the physical attraction, right, this kind of this desire.

I see, ok, that's one, that's Eros.

But eros can be part of a deeper relationship. You can feel this hopefully towards your husband or wife; you can feel this towards people that you care about too. The second type that we're going to talk about is Pragma.

Let me guess, Pragma, does that have anything to do with pragmatic, being functional, being realistic?

Yeah, this is again perfect answer from Lulu. Right, this is the love that we have when we find value in somebody. And Aristotle talks about this in friendships as well, that we have friendships because we are around people that we have a pragmatic relationship, the builds up this kind of love.

And again, is this a kind of selfish love? This is another question we will talk about later.

It's more about responsibilities, isn't it?

What do you mean by responsibilities?

Because I'm assuming pragmatic love is more like there's a commitment. It's like we both get something out of being in this pragmatic love; like I have responsibilities to take, you have responsibilities to take?

And this does build a kind of connection, doesn't it, over time, when you successfully do things together. So I know that, for example, me and you have done many things, organized things, some of them formal, some of them informal. But each time you talk to somebody, and you have this successful process of arranging something and sorting out something together, then it does strengthen a kind of connection between the two of you, doesn't it?

That's Pragma, ok. And then?

My Greek is not great, but we're gonna stick with Storge for this one.

Storge.

And this is a kind of unconditional love, especially a family kind of love.

Oh, like parents to kids, we often say that the only person that's gonna love you unconditionally in this world is really your parent or parents.

Hopefully, right. That's what we hope that your parents will love you that way. This unconditional what does that mean? Without condition you don't have to do anything to get this kind of love, so this kind of love perhaps can be built up over time as well; that it could be for your partner, maybe your partner could get ill and you still love them.

Yeah, but that I have to disagree, because you said if it's your partner, then even if they're ill, you have to take care of them for many years, then you are still offering unconditional love; but it's not because even though they're not contributing right now, they have contributed to this relationship before. And that's why you are sort of giving them this affection because you are still thinking about what they have done with you or for you before.

So in that way, it's not purely unconditional, right?

Right, or at least I guess in that sense it would become unconditional. At the start, so even when it's your son or daughter, then the condition is still that they are your son or daughter. Maybe if you found out they were not really your son or daughter, maybe that would change.

Yeah, exactly.


I think that's why unconditional, perhaps sometimes people translate storge into家庭之爱。I know like in the Bible they talk about this; I guess it's the idea that unless you're really connected in a family, it's very difficult for people to have that sort of unconditional love.

I do think that it can be this built-up over time love that becomes unconditional, I remember one of the people I know that old English man and that they have lived in the same village for their whole life.

And from the age of five, all the way up to the age of now, they are like70, they've just done everything together, they went to school together, they worked in the same place, they played on the same football team, and they just built up this even though they have very different personalities, there's a very very strong connection, and they don't necessarily… it's not just pragmatic either, they don't give each other money or they don't do business together. They are just around each other and it builds up this very kind of strong connection…

Bond.

Right, that's not to do with money or sex.

In today’s Let's Philosophize, we talked to TJ about some of the Greek words and ideas of different types of love.

In the next episode, we’re gonna to continue this topic and explore the idea of love a bit more. Meanwhile, do you believe there is a unconditional love?

Leave us a comment, we will see you next time.

重点单词   查看全部解释    
realistic [riə'listik]

想一想再看

adj. 现实的,现实主义的

 
classic ['klæsik]

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n. 古典作品,杰作,第一流艺术家
adj.

 
romantic [rə'mæntik]

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adj. 浪漫的
n. 浪漫的人

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strengthen ['streŋθən]

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v. 加强,变坚固

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disagree [.disə'gri:]

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v. 不一致,有分歧,不适应,不适宜

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stick [stik]

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n. 枝,杆,手杖
vt. 插于,刺入,竖起<

 
smart [smɑ:t]

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adj. 聪明的,时髦的,漂亮的,敏捷的,轻快的,整洁的

 
pragmatic [præg'mætik]

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adj. 实际的,实用主义的

联想记忆
intimacy ['intiməsi]

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n. 亲密,隐私

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explore [iks'plɔ:]

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v. 探险,探测,探究

联想记忆

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