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Hi, everyone. And welcome back to Sound of Musicals. 欢迎回来【曲外之音】。

In the previous episode, we talked to Oliver about West Side Story, and today we're gonna continue that talk about its conflicts and the music.

Hi, Oliver. Hello. Welcome back to the show.

Thank you. It's good.

I remember talking to you when we're not recording and then you mentioned that you play the character in West Side Story. However, this is not one of your favorite musicals.

No, that's true. I was in this show, and there are definitely some good aspects of it. But it doesn't sit perfectly with me. There are lots of things which I think could have been done better, or changed, or it’s just not my style.

It’s not as hopeless as Les Mis (Les Miserables 悲惨世界).（????戳我跳转）

Yes, that's true. Les Mis is on the other end of the musical chart in terms of hopelessness and sadness really. But I think some aspects in this, yeah, they could have certainly been a bit more serious, a bit more heart-hitting than they were.

Yes. When I was watching it, at bits I also felt like it is still about gang violence or maybe they were just using this as a backdrop, but certainly at place it felt like they were kind of playing light of this theme which should be a lot darker, a lot heavier.

It should, yeah. And most times people do make gang violence, gang warfare to be very dark because that is more towards the truth of gang violence. West Side Story takes it in a very different direction by having these serious gangs who fight and kill. They do elaborate dances to happy music while they click their fingers, it doesn't feel quite like I should take them seriously. It's hard to be, it does feel like that.

It's like pretend gangsters but actual musical actors.

Yes, it does feel like that. We are supposed to believe these guys fight and they're angry and they do lots of bad things, but you can't really believe it sometimes when you see them. That's one of the things that I think could have been changed a little bit. But I do know that lots of people like that side of it. It’s embracing this gang culture, this gang idea but not in a serious heavy sad way.

Yeah, I mean you can't imagine turning Godfather trilogy into musicals, it just doesn't work.

Don Corleone (唐·柯里昂, 《教父》系列的Godfather) clicking his fingers and spinning doesn't really go very well with that movie.

No, no.

And I think a lot of people do love the idea of gangsters. Actually, I think in many cultures, there has been a period… different historical periods of people would into that sort of film, TV, it's also about this youth related adrenaline rush, like you're fighting for whatever you think it's the right reason to fight. And you can use violence to correct the wrongs or to deal with everything. That idea I think you can obviously see in the gang members.

Yes, definitely.

Both of the gangs have very different ideas of … in terms of how they should be seen by other people and how they should be treated and their positions within the neighborhood. Both of them are using violence to try to become the top gang to have everybody listen to them, so they are respected.

What that actually means for the neighborhood? I'm not entirely sure, because would they do if they are number one? But that's not talked about within the musical. I don't think they just want to be the best. So…

No. But the other thing I noticed about the two gangs it's not just normal two nameless gangs. It's more like, there’s the racial element. There's definitely the racial element. It's the whites, the local gangs. I don't know if they're Italian because Tony sounds very Italian, then some of the other names sounds a bit Italian. And then you have this other newer immigrants, the Puerto Rican gang. So the racial element that you do see.

Yes, it is definitely there with these gang fights, the American gang, the Jets. I think they are supposed to be mainly Italian immigrants but a few generations down. So maybe their parents, grandparents, great grandparents came from Italy.

So now these gang members think of themselves as real true Americans; and the Puerto Ricans, these are the new immigrants, they are just into the U.S. And so this friction between people who think it's their territory, the American gang vs. people who want to make something these Puerto Rican immigrants, the friction between them does seem to play a massive part in the show.

And you mentioned last time the whole idea of American dream and this cannot be more obvious in the music number called America.

Yes, it is right there. It almost hits you in the face when you listen to the lyrics or when you read the lyrics of this song.

So this piece of music, if you actually watch the show or watch the movie, you will see two distinctive groups, you see the boys and the girls they from the Puerto Rican side, and they have very different ideas about what America is.

The girls are, they're all in colorful dresses, they’re all very upbeat. They are saying things like ‘I like to be in America, ok by me in America, everything free in America.’ And then the boys were almost like trying to rain on their parade. They always add in one more sentence. For example, the girls are saying ‘buying on credit is so nice’ and the boys goes ‘one look at us and they charge you twice.’

It is very cynical from the boys in this song, yes. I think it shows the aspect of the gangs because the boys are the ones out there on the streets, kind of seeing this other side of America, whereas the girls are working, maybe at home, but not far away. They certainly don't have the same viewpoint as the boys. So when they're saying things like ‘life is all right in America’, that's the girls. And then the boys say ‘if you're a white in America’. So it's, uh, get that in your face racial conflict is right there in the lyrics.

And it's also this sharp contrast, not just racial but also the rich and the poor, you know the economic boom, all the luxury in the world, but then the sort of the substandard of living if you are from an ethnic minority and if you don't have money, like this part when the girls were singing, ‘skyscrapers bloom in America, Cadillacs zoom in America, industry boom in America’, and the boys come in and say, ‘12 in a room in America’.

Yes, so it says straightaway, their housing conditions. There is so much happening. Buildings are going up, cars are everywhere, but these immigrants have, these Puerto Rican immigrants, the new people have got nothing. They all have to go in a small room, in a small, probably a small apartment.

The overcrowding.

It’s screaming of the inequality.

Ok. Let's listen to this bit.

Yeah. One thing that if you listen to it, you would definitely notice the accent, right? They also mentioned about the accent. I was gonna ask you Oliver like what do you think about using very distinctive accents in like musicals or other types of acting. Do you think it's absolutely necessary to accentuate the accent, because me, being very interested in language myself, sometimes I'm a bit worried that if you focus too much on the accent and make the accent too thick, it is more… somehow you worry about stereotypes.

Yeah, it's quite a difficult thing to get right I think. But I think having an accent is important in some places, most places, especially in things like this, like West Side Story when you have these two gangs, the American gang vs. Puerto Rican gang, you need the accents I think to show more of a difference between these two gangs.

When you think about it, there's not actually so much difference except from the time they've been in America. So having the accents does make it more of a contrast in that way. But … so adds to the play. Exactly. Adds to the musical. Yeah. And I think so long as the accent adds to the story or there is a real reason why there is an accent, then that is important, and in some cases necessary.

That’s sort a justifiable.

Yes, definitely. But having an accent, just to have the accent or to make it so big, as a novelty? yeah for a novelty, or making it so big that it’s a stereotype, I think is completely unnecessary. If it doesn't add anything to the story, there's no reason for it, then why have it.

Yeah, exactly.

All right. And then the other side of this, because like we listen to America, that's a main number in this. It's very poignant, it's very sort of sarcastic showing the contrast; but then you also have when Tony and Maria, because after all this still is a love story, tragic as it is, it's a tragic love story. So when Tony and Maria, when they first fell in love, there was some sweet tunes. It's one of those that you know it's gonna end in tragedy. So it almost makes their sweetness this romance very melancholy.

It does feel like that certainly from the side of Tony. Tony’s songs about Maria, Tony’s song Maria, is much more, as you say melancholy, it's much more sort of not as happy or excited or fast pace as Maria's songs, which are… they sound and feel more optimistic. Whereas Tony’s, you almost you want him how the story will end, but you want it to end differently because of this. And it almost feels like Tony knows how it's going to end as well.

I think Tony knows, because compared Tony with Maria, Tony knows what the street life is, the gang life is. You never really get out of a gang. Maria doesn't know. Maria is in town, new in this country, doesn't really know anything about gangster culture. I think that's the thing, and let's put those songs together and see and… I mean if you listen to them, you definitely hear a difference. So first of all, let's listen to a bit from Tony singing Maria.

Yeah, it is pretty sad. It's a beautiful song. It is, it's very nice. But it's not like all happy. I met the girl of my dreams. It's more like I kind of know something bad is going to happen. I'm just not going to get her.

Yeah, it's like he knows that this is doomed, but he still just wants to hold on to that name, like the whole thing is mostly about her name. How about this name, sounds amazing and how you can't stop saying it and almost like he doesn't see her, he just sees nor feels the name itself which is another tragic thing as well, but it is very different from Maria's song.

Yeah, I think to him it’s… Maria is kind of an angelic presence, it’s a salvation for Tony. Maria symbolizes something not just the girl herself.

It's almost like he's praying, I feel. As people say God's name many times to try to get him to listen and help them, he will keep saying Maria because she is his savior, this angel who can help him. It's a lovely song, but it’s got that sadness behind it.

But now let's just listen to Maria’s song, I feel pretty. I'm sure a lot of you have heard of this. This is in a lot of burlesque show actually, this has been sung in a lot of.

Then I would know nothing about that.

Yeah. I feel pretty, and listen to this. This is purely an innocent young girl first time in love. The whole world smiles at her and because she's got this man of her dreams in her head and saying ‘I feel pretty, oh, so pretty; I feel so pretty, witty and bright.’ and let's listen to that bit. Mhm.

Yeah, you can clearly hear the difference, right? Which makes it really sad because as audience we know what's gonna happen.

We know that everything is doomed. Tony knows its doomed. Most of the other people probably know it’s doomed, but then Maria still has her hope, her optimism. And she seems to be blind to what's in evidently coming their way. It sounds like a good song but it shows a lot.

Yeah. Okay, I think we're gonna wrap up here. About West Side Story, if you're listening to this and this is your favorite, tell us which piece of music you like and tell us your take on some of the issues and conflicts we mentioned in today's episode.

Thank you, Oliver for coming to the show.

Thank you for having me back.

See you next time.

Bye bye.