And in this case, with Beth, you co-wrote a book with her. What, what was that like?

在这种情况下，你和贝丝共同撰写了一本书。当时是什么情况?

Well, let me rewind if maybe 10, 12 years ago, because Beth and I wrote the book over the pandemic.

让我回顾过去，可能10年前，12年前，那时贝丝和我写了一本关于流行病的书。

So we wrote this book virtually, which is wild.

我们真的写了这本书，非常疯狂。

But when we first met, it was not love at first sight.

但我们第一次见面时，并没有一见如故的感觉。

And what I like to share is that I was at the Academy of Management, which is the major convening organization for professors of management as well as doctoral students, et cetera, I’d finished giving a talk, I stepped off the stage.

我想和大家分享的是，我在管理学院(召集管理学教授和博士生等的主要机构)的时候，我刚做完演讲走下讲台。

There’s a queue of people waiting to speak to me, and I jokingly say that I saw this white woman skipping up to me, and she got into my face, sort of, she was very eager to meet me, and I was sort of, Whoa, wait a minute, security.

有一排人等着和我说话，我开玩笑地说，我看到一个白人女子朝着我跳过来，她撞到了我的脸上，她非常渴望见到我，我有点想说，等一下，保安。

I didn’t quite know what was happening, but that was Beth.

我不太知道发生了什么，但那是贝丝。

And Beth had heard about me, and we had heard about each other through the academy, and she was interested in getting to know me at a deeper level.

贝丝已经听说了我的情况，我们也通过学院了解了彼此，她有兴趣更深入地了解我。

I was very resistant because in the academy as well as in my prior career, so I’ve been a banker and a consultant as well. Uh, I have been betrayed and largely at the hands of white women.

我很抗拒，因为在这个学院中，以及我之前的职业生涯中--我曾做过银行家和顾问，我被背叛过，而且大部分是被白人女性背叛。

And so when I saw a white woman bounding towards me, my defenses went up, and I was friendly, but I was not welcoming or embracing.

所以当我看到一个白人女子向我跳过来时，我加强了防御，我表现得很友好，但我没有表示欢迎，也没有拥抱她。

It was only when I realized that Beth and I shared a common friend, a Black woman who I knew and trusted that I began to let my defenses down long enough to actually challenge and question myself.

直到我知道贝丝和我有一个共同的朋友，一个我认识并信任的黑人女性，我才开始花了很长时间卸下自己的防御盘问自己。

And the question that I asked myself, Curt, was, “Has Beth done anything to demonstrate that she is not trustworthy?”

柯特，我问自己的问题是，“贝丝有没有做过证明她不值得信任的事？”

And the answer was no.

答案是否定的。

So I wanted to interrogate myself, “Why are you having this reaction?”

所以我想问问自己，“你为什么会有这种反应?”

And so I talked to myself about the betrayals that I’ve experienced in the workplace and how this defensiveness that I was experiencing, it might be protective, meaning, it, it, it makes sense when someone is harmed by a particular group that they might not, uh, be as open to that interaction.

我和自己说了我在工作中经历过的背叛，以及我所经历的这种防御可能是一种保护，也就是说，当一个人受到某个特定群体的伤害时，他们可能不会对这种互动保持开放的态度。

But then you can’t stay there.

不过，这样你就不能停留在那里了。

And if I had allowed those defense mechanisms to stay there, I would’ve missed out on one of the closest relationships that I now have.

如果我保留这些防御机制，那么，我就会错过我现在最亲密的关系之一。