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NPR讲解附字幕:美防长辞职凸显决策层分歧 或迎来首名女防长

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The resignation of a Cabinet secretary, let alone a secretary of defense, raises questions about the job that person had been doing as well as the policies the White House wanted to implement. Those were the kinds of issues raised yesterday when Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel's resignation was announced. Hagel is staying on until his replacement is found. NPR's Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman is in the studio with me. Tom, good morning.

白宫内阁一名部长辞职会引发对那名官员工作的质疑以及对白宫政策实施的质疑,更不用说辞职的是国防部长了。昨天,国防部长查克·哈格尔辞职一事被公布,便引发了类似的问题。哈格尔将工作到新任防长人选获得确认为止。今天我们的演播室请到了NPR新闻驻五角大楼的记者汤姆·鲍曼。汤姆,早上好。
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Good morning, David.
汤姆·鲍曼:早上好,大卫。
GREENE: So the White House says this was a mutual decision, that Hagel and the president came together. What are you hearing?
格林:白宫表示这是哈格尔和总统共同做出的决定。你了解的情况呢?
BOWMAN: Well, I'm hearing there's been recent sniping by anonymous White House officials. You look at The New York Times, they said Hagel was often silent at Cabinet meetings and that he had a hard time explaining administration policy against the Islamic State. I've heard similar complaints from Pentagon officials as well.
鲍曼:据匿名的白宫官员表示哈格尔一直饱受抨击。你可以看到《纽约时报》上的文章指出,哈格尔在内阁会议上总是沉默寡言,他难以解释政府对抗“伊斯兰国”的政策。而且我从五角大楼官员那里也听到了类似的不满。
GREENE: OK, so that's some of the criticism. Have Hagel's defenders been coming out and speaking or speaking privately?
格林:好,这是一些批评的声音。那支持哈格尔的人有没有站出来为他说话?或是在私下为他辩护?
BOWMAN: Yeah, Hagel's defenders point out that, listen, Hagel himself is critical of the administration's Syrian policy. Just last month Hagel wrote a memo to National Security Adviser Susan Rice saying the policy failed to address what to do about Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who the U.S. wants to go.
鲍曼:有,支持哈格尔的人指出,哈格尔自己也对政府在叙利亚问题上的政策进行了批评。就在上个月,哈格尔在写给美国国家安全顾问苏珊·赖斯的备忘录中表示,这一政策未能解决要如何对待叙利亚总统巴沙尔·阿萨德的问题,而美国一直希望他能下台。
And this gets to the larger problem, David — a growing number of Democrats and Republicans say it's a confused Syria policy. On the one hand, the administration is bombing the so-called Islamic State, on the other, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is bombing the moderate Syrian rebels, who the U.S. supports. And I asked Hagel just a few weeks ago, does this make a side stronger? And this is what he had to say.
这触及了更大的问题,大卫,越来越多的民主党人和共和党人表示这是一项混乱的叙利亚政策。一方面,政府轰炸所谓的“伊斯兰国”,另一方面叙利亚总统巴沙尔·阿萨德在袭击美国支持的叙利亚温和反对派。几周前我问哈格尔,这种做法有使哪一方变得更强吗?下面是他的回答。
U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY CHUCK HAGEL: Well, the complications of Syria — you have just noted some — in particular, as we and the coalition go after ISIL to help the Iraqis secure their government, but also the Middle East. Yes, Assad derives some benefit of that, of course.
美国国防部长查克·哈格尔:你刚刚提到了一些叙利亚问题的复杂性,尤其是我们和联盟在打击“伊斯兰国”,帮助伊拉克保卫他们的政府以及中东。当然,阿萨德从中得到了些好处。
BOWMAN: So that may have been what the White House officials were complaining about. Hagel has a hard time defending and explaining the policy. But again, this policy itself is also under fire.
鲍曼:这可能就是白宫官员不满的地方。哈格尔很难为这项政策辩护,又很难解释清楚这项政策。而且,政策本身也遭到了指责。

美国国防部长哈格尔辞职.jpg

GREENE: So not out rightly questioning administration policy there. But, I mean, you can hear sort of bits and pieces of that in his tone, which might give us a window into some of the disagreement with this administration over what to do with Syria, which makes me wonder, anyone taking the helm at the Pentagon, won't they have a hard time explaining a strategy if there's a sort of a difference of opinion?

格林:没有正确地公开质疑政府的政策。我是说,你能从他的语气中听到一些东西,这可能让我们知道政府就如何处理叙利亚问题存在分歧,这让我想知道,五角大楼掌门人在遇到不同意见时会无法解释这种战略吗?
BOWMAN: You know, I think so. Now the administration is hopeful that the airstrikes will weaken the Islamic State over time — maybe years — and that training Syrian rebels and Iraqi military will then allow that crucial ground force to the finish the job. And the question of Assad can wait until later. That's what they're saying; this could be worked out diplomatically. So they're kind of kicking the Assad can down the road, so to speak.
鲍曼:你知道,我认为是这样的。现在政府希望随着时间的推移空袭可以削弱“伊斯兰国”的力量,这也许需要数年的时间,而训练叙利亚反对派和伊拉克军队可以保证关键的地面部队力量完成这项任务。而阿萨德的问题可以以后再处理。这就是他们说的;在外交上取得成效。所以可以说,他们认为可以之后再打击阿萨德。
GREENE: OK and — but all of that will have to be dealt with the new defense secretary. And we're going to have a confirmation hearing whoever is nominated. We're looking at a GOP-controlled Senate in the new year with Senator John McCain leading the committee that will vet Hagel's successor, right? What does that all mean?
格林:好,但是这些都要交给新任国防部长来完成了。我们将对提名人选进行确认。明年由共和党掌控的参议院和参议员约翰·麦凯恩领导的委员会将审查哈格尔的继任者,对吧?这些意味着什么?
BOWMAN: That's right, and it's interesting. Senator McCain came out yesterday defending Hagel, saying Hagel was frustrated by the White House policy against ISIS, and McCain said Hagel also felt he was being micromanaged by the White House. That's a complaint I've heard from others at the Pentagon as well. And McCain has urged stronger action against Syrian President Assad, more support to the Syrian rebels. And all that of that, David, is certainly — will come up at the confirmation hearing for the next secretary of defense.
鲍曼:没错,这很有意思。参议员麦凯恩昨天公开为哈格尔辩护,他表示哈格尔因白宫打击“伊斯兰国”的政策而受挫,麦凯恩称哈格尔感觉他被白宫微管理了。这种不满我从其他五角大楼官员那里也听到过。麦凯恩敦促美国对叙利亚总统阿萨德采取更严格的措施,给予叙利亚反对派更多的支持。大卫,这些肯定将在下一任国防部长任命听证会上提出。
GREENE: Just a couple seconds left — a few names on the short list?
格林:我们还有几秒钟的时间,目前有提名人选吗?
BOWMAN: Well, David, the one name everyone is mentioning is Michelle Flournoy. She served as a top policy official at the Pentagon and now runs a think tank. She's highly respected, and she would be the first woman defense secretary.
鲍曼:大卫,所有人都提到了一个名字——米歇尔·弗拉沃伊。她曾在五角大楼担任最高政策官员,目前负责一家智库。她倍受尊敬,有望成为美国首位女国防部长。
GREENE: All right. NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman talking to us about the departure of Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel. Tom, thanks a lot.
格林:好的。NPR新闻驻五角大楼记者汤姆·鲍曼和我们谈了国防部长查克·哈格尔辞职的情况。汤姆。非常感谢你。
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
鲍曼:不客气。

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