He was the 41st killer to be interviewed by Mr Oppenheimer. He gloated over how they used to crush their victims' necks with wooden staves, How they hanged them, strangled them, cut off their heads, ran them over with cars—all because they were allowed to. And he insisted that they never felt guilty, never got depressed, never had nightmares.

At home, he served the film-maker sweet tea. While the two men discussed what film they might make, he taught a young boy how to care for his pet duckling. He roped in his Pancasila friends to re-enact what they had done. The directors gave them carte blanche. The gangsters sketched out interrogations and how they beat women and burned down villages. Aided by a fat sidekick in drag, with bright lipstick and lime eyeshadow, They even reenacted a beheading, and how afterwards they ate the victim's liver. In the evening they watched the day's rushes.

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