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So you keep talking about leadership as a real crisis of conformity.
您一直说领导力是真正的遵从危机。
Can you explain to us what you mean by that?
能给大家解释一下是什么意思吗？
What do you see as a crisis of conformity?
您认为怎么样才算是遵从危机？
I think it's a crisis of conformity when we continue to do business and lead in the way we always have,
我认为以下情况就是一种遵从危机：当我们一直继续按照我们平时的方式来做生意和领导别人，
yet the evidence is overwhelming that the world needs us to change our ways.
但已经有不可忽视的事实指出这个世界需要我们改变我们做事的方式。
So let's look a little bit at that evidence.
让我们来看下一部分事实。
Science has told us that we're facing a climate crisis,
科学告诫我们我们正面临着气候危机，
yet 40 percent of board directors don't think climate belongs in the boardroom.
然而有四成的董事会董事却并不认为气候问题应该出现在会议室。
And we have kids marching in the streets now, asking us to be accountable for their future.
现在有孩子在街上示威游行，要求我们为他们的未来负责。
We have a crisis of inequality. We have Yellow Jackets not just in the streets of France, but all over the world,
我们面临着不平等危机。现在不只在法国的街头有“黄背心”，全世界都存在，
and yet we continue to see examples of businesses and other leaders fueling that anger.
但我们仍然可以看见有企业和其他领导人为那些怒火火上浇油。
Do you think the pitchforks are coming?
您认为“干草叉”会到来吗？
I definitely think this is not sustainable.
我认为这肯定是不可持续的。
And the reason why it's so difficult for us to deal with these complicated crises that are interrelated
而且我们之所以很难对付这些互相关联的危机，
is that we are at the lowest levels of trust we've ever been at.
是因为我们正处于互相信任的最低点。
In the UK, three percent of people trust their government to solve the Brexit crisis, and that was in December.
在英国，只有3%的民众信任政府能处理好脱欧危机，那还只是十二月份的数字。
I think it's probably gone down since then.
我认为这个数字可能已经变得更低了。
What do you think new leadership actually looks like?
您认为新的领导力应该是什么样的？
We need courageous leaders, yet they have to be humble.
我们需要勇敢的领导人，但他们也必须要谦逊。
And they have to be guided by a moral compass, and the moral compass is the combination of having a social purpose
而且他们必须是被道德标准所指引着的，这个道德标准包括有一个社会目标，
you can't have your license to operate anymore without a purpose that contributes to society,
如果你没有为社会做出贡献的目标，你就不能继续持有经营执照，
but what, to me, has been missing from that dialogue is a set of principles.
但对我而言，在意见交流中所缺乏的是一组原则。
We cannot just define why we exist, we have to define how we're going to do business and how we're going to lead.
我们不能仅定义我们为何存在，我们必须定义我们未来要怎样做生意，怎样去领导。
And to us, that has to be to solve these imminent crises:
对我们来说，这意味着我们要去解决这些迫切的危机：
the climate crisis, the crisis of inequality and the crisis of trust.
气候危机，不平等危机和信任危机。
So at The B Team, we embrace sustainability, equality and accountability as our principles.
所以，在“B团队”，我们很乐于将可持续性、平等及可靠性来作为我们的原则。
Do you think this whole question of purpose is really window dressing
您认为这一整个关于目的的问题是否只是为了粉饰太平？
they're saying what they think people want to hear,
他们只是说出了他们认为大众想听的话，
but they're actually not making the fundamental changes that are necessary?
但实际上却并没有做出实质性的、有必要的改变？
A lot of people feel that way, and I think there's a growing momentum behind that.
很多人都这么觉得，我认为在那背后有更强大的推动力在作祟。
So I think the world is calling for responsible leadership now,
所以我认为现在的世界正在召集负责任的领导，
and any leader who wants to be around for the 21st century really needs to start thinking courageously and holistically
任何想在21世纪继续领导的人，都必须得要开始做勇敢、全面的思考，
how they're going to be part of the solution and not window-dress anymore.
想想他们到底要如何成为问题解决方案的一部分，而不只是继续粉饰太平。
You have to do it for real now.
现在真的得要认真的考虑这些了。
Do you see anybody out there who's doing it in a way that you think is actually effective and has a real, long-term impact?
您有没有见过任何人正在做这些事？按照您认为有效的方式，并具有切实而长期的影响？
Fortunately, we have some great leaders out there.
幸运的是，我们的确有些杰出的领导人。
And just to give one example, Emmanuel Faber, who's one of the newest members of The B Team,
举个例子，伊曼纽尔·法伯，B团队最新加入的成员之一，
he's the CEO of Danone, the world's largest yogurt-maker and major food company -- a real global company.
也是达能的首席执行官，世界上最大的酸奶制造商和主要的食品公司--一家真正的环球公司。
He's so committed to sustainability that he's not only changing the ways of his own business, but his entire supply chain.
他致力于可持续发展，不仅改变了自己做生意的方式，还改变了整个供应链。
He's so committed to equality that when he took on as CEO and he said gender balance matters,
他也致力于平等，当他担任首席执行官时，他就说性别平衡很重要，
he created a gender-balanced executive team and gave men and women equal maternity and paternity leave.
他创造了一个性别平衡的领导团队，并给予男性与女性平等的产假。
He's so committed to accountability that he turned his US operations into a B Corporation.
他也致力于承担责任，将自己的在美国的事业转变成了B企业。
Now many of you may not know what that is,
许多人可能并不知道B企业是什么。
but that's a company that holds itself responsible for not just profit but its impact on people and the planet,
那是一家不仅谋求利润，还为其对人和地球造成的影响负责的企业，
and transparently reports on their performance on all of that. It's the largest B Corp in the world.
并提供透明公开的报告来说明他们在所有这些方面的表现。这是世界上最大的一家B企业。
So to me, that's holistic, courageous leadership, and it's really the vision we all need to hold.
所以对我来说，那是全面、有勇气的领导力，也是我们都需要拥有的愿景。
Is this "Back to the Future"? I mean, I wonder, when I think about companies
这是《回到未来》吗？我的意思是，我想知道，当我想到那些公司，
Anheuser-Busch comes to mind in America -- a 100-year-old company that invested in its community,
脑海中出现了美国的安海斯-布希公司--一家拥有一百多年历史的企业，投资他自己的社区，
that gave a living wage before it ended up, you know, losing and getting sold.
在一切都结束之前，仍然发给员工维生的工资。
Are we really looking now for companies that are global and community citizens,
我们现在真的在寻找这种既全球化又是社区公民的公司，
or is that something that is not even useful anymore?
还是这些甚至都已经不管用了？
Well, you can do this for the reason that it's risky, actually, to continue without doing the right thing now.
其实你可以因为风险太高的原因继续不做“正确”的事情。
You can't attract the right talent, you can't attract customers and increasingly, you won't be able to attract capital.
你就吸引不到合适的人才，吸引不到顾客，渐渐地，你也吸引不到资金。
You might do it for risk reasons, you might do it for business opportunity reasons,
你可能会为了高风险的原因来做这件事，也可能是为了商业机遇的原因，
because this is where the growth is, which is why many leaders are doing the right thing.
因为成长就来源于此，这也就是为什么很多领导人都在做正确的事。
But at the end of the day, we need to ask ourselves: "Who are we holding ourselves accountable for?"
但到最后，我们需要扪心自问：“我们在对谁负责任？”
And if that isn't the next generation, I don't know who.
如果那指的不是下一代人的话，我也不知道还能是谁了。
So I want to just make very clear, because we tend to think about leadership as only those who sit in positions of power.
所以，我只想说清楚，因为通常当我们想到领导力这个词的时候，我们只会想到那些坐拥权力的人。
To me, leadership is not at all like that.
但对我来说，领导力完全不是那样的。
There's a leader inside every single one of us, and our most important work in life is to release that leader.
我们每个人心中都有一个领导人，并且我们一生中最重要的工作就是去释放那位领导人。
And I think one of the greatest global examples we have of someone who didn't -- no one gave her power
我认为全世界范围内一个最伟大的例子没有权力的人--没有任何人给她权力，
is the 16-year-old girl called Greta Thunberg.
那是一个16岁的女孩，名叫格蕾塔·桑伯格。
She's from Sweden, and a few years ago, she really became...
她来自瑞典，几年前，她成为了真正的...
she has Asperger's, and she became passionate about our climate crisis -- learned everything about it.
她患有亚斯伯格综合征，她变得对气候危机充满激情--了解了关于它的一切。
And faced with the evidence, she just felt so disappointed in her leadership
面对那些事实，她感到对自己的“领导力”非常失望，
that she started striking in front of the Swedish parliament.
由此，她开始在瑞典议会前举行抗议活动。
And now she has started a global movement,
现在她已经发起了一项全球运动，
and hundreds and thousands of school kids are out in the streets asking us to hold ourselves accountable for their future.
成百上千的学生走上了街头，要求我们对他们的未来负起责任。
No one gave her that authority,
没有人给予她那些权力，
and she now speaks to the leaders of the world, heads of state, and really is impacting the world.
现在她能与全世界各个国家的领导人对话，并真正的影响着世界。
So I really think that when we think about leadership today,
所以我真的认为如今我们谈论起领导力时，
it can't be defined to those in positions of power though they have disproportionately greater responsibility.
它不能被定义成坐拥权力的那些人，尽管他们负担着大得多的责任。
But all of us need to think about, "What am I doing?" "How am I contributing?"
但我们所有人都应该想想，“我在做什么？”“我在如何贡献？”
And we need to release that leader inside and actually start making the positive impact this world is calling for right now.
我们得放出内心的领导人，并真正开始造成这个世界所需要的影响。
But we have such hierarchical leadership.
但我们现在的领导力是阶层式的。
I mean, I understand what you're saying -- it's nice to release the leader inside
我的意思是，我理解您说的--释放内心中的领导人是很好，
but in these corporations, the truth is, it's extremely hierarchical.
但在这些企业中，事实是，他们非常重阶级。
What can companies do to create less vertical and more horizontal relationships?
公司能做些什么才能创造更扁平而非垂直的同事关系？
Well, I'm a big believer and I've long been passionate about closing the gender gap,
我很相信并一直以来都很热切的希望能消除性别落差，
and I really believe gender-balanced leadership is the way to go in order to embrace a leadership style that has been shown to be more powerful,
并且我真的相信性别均衡的领导层是能达到一种公认的更强大的领导风格的方式，
and that's when both men and women embrace both masculine and feminine values.
也就是当男性和女性都能拥抱男性化和女性化所带来的价值时。
It actually is proven in research that that's the most effective leadership style.
事实上已经有研究表明那是最有效的一种领导模式。
But I'm increasingly now thinking about how we close the generational gap,
但我现在更多的在思考该如何缩小年龄差距，
because look at these young children in the streets around the world -- they're asking us to lead.
因为当我看到现在年纪小的孩子在全世界的街头呼吁--他们在要求我们去领导。
Kofi Annan used to say, "You're never too young to lead."
科菲·安南曾说过：“领导永远也不会嫌年轻。”
And then he would add, "Or too old to learn."
他通常会加上一句，“活到老学到老。”
And I think we have now entered this era where we need the wisdom of those with experience,
我认为我们已经跨入了这样一个时代，我们既需要这些经验人士的智慧，
but we need the digital natives of the young generation to co-mentor or to mentor us
也需要年轻的数字原生代来互相指导或指导我们，
just as much as we can help with wisdom from the older people.
就像我们能用前人的经验帮助他们一样。
So it's a new reality, and these old, sort of hierarchical ways to think about things,
所以这是一种新的现实，那些老旧的、类似等级制度的思考方式，
they're increasingly coming under pressure in this reality.
会变得越来越禁不起这种现实的考验。
And you've actually called that the hubris syndrome. Can you talk about that?
您其实已经称之为“自负综合征”。能多讲讲吗？
Well, yes, I think hubris is our cancer in leadership.
当然，我认为自负是领导方式中的毒瘤。
That's when leaders think they know it all, can do it all,
也就是领导认为自己知道一切，能完成一切，
have all the answers and don't think they need to surround themselves with people who will make them better,
有了所有问题的答案，认为他们不需要听取那些能让他们变得更好的人的建议。
which to me would, in some cases, be more women and younger people and people who are diverse and have different opinions in general.
对我来说，在某些情况下，指的是更多的女性、年轻人和总体更多元、有别的想法的人。
Hubris syndrome is so present in leadership still, and we know many examples of them, I don't need to name them.
自负综合征在领导层很普遍，遮这样的例子不胜枚举，我不需要说出来。
And the problem with that... Yeah, we know them -- all over the world, not just in this country.
问题在于...是的，我们都了解那些例子--在全世界都有，不只在这个国家有。
But that kind of leadership doesn't unleash leaders in others.
但这种领导力并不能解放别人心中的领导人。
No one person, or no one sector even has the solutions we now need to come up with... the creativity and collaboration we need.
没有一个人，甚至没有一个领域有我们需要的解决办法...我们需要的创造力和合作精神。
The bold and the brave leadership we need to come up with solutions that cross government,
没有我们需要的那种大胆、勇敢的领导方式来跨越政府部门，
private sector, civil society, young people, older people,
私营部门，社会生活，年轻人，老人，
people of all different backgrounds coming together is the way to solve the issues that are in front of us.
各种背景的人，把这些人组织起来，从而想出我们所面临问题的解决办法。
Do you see that kind of leadership coming from the bottom-up or the top-down,
您认为那是来自自下而上的领导，还是自上而下的领导，
or do you think a crisis is going to force us into a reexamination of all of this?
还是您认为将会有一个危机出现，迫使我们来重新审视所有的这些？
Well, as someone who lived through the most infamous financial meltdown in my home country, Iceland,
作为一个经历了我的祖国冰岛，史上最声名狼藉的金融危机的人，
I hope we don't need another one to learn or to wake up.
我希望我们不需要再经历另一个危机才能学习或觉醒。
But I do see that we can't choose one or the other.
但我认为我们不能仅选择其中一种领导方式。
We do have to transform the way we lead -- from the top, the boardroom, the CEOs
我们必须转变我们现有的领导方式--从权力顶端，会议室，首席执行官们开始，
we really do have to transform that, but increasingly, we will transform that,
我们的确需要转变那些，但久而久之，我们会做到的，
because we have these social movements coming from the bottom and throughout society.
因为我们有这些自底层和整个社会发起的社会运动。
And the solutions exist. The only thing that's missing is will.
而且，解决方案是存在的。唯一缺少的是决心。
So if we just all find a way to embrace a moral compass of our own to figure out why we exist and how we're going to lead,
所以只要我们都能找到一种方法来拥抱属于自己的道德指南针，想明白我们为什么存在，我们该如何领导，
and if we embrace courage and humility in equal amounts,
如果我们拥抱同等程度的勇气与谦逊，
each one of us can be part of this 10-year period where we can dramatically transform the world we live in,
那么我们每个人就都能成为剧烈改变我们所居住社会的十年计划中的一份子，
and make it just, and make it about humanity and not just the financial markets.
并让其变得公正，变得关乎人道，而不只是金融市场。
Well, we have a lot of people here who I bet have questions for you,
我敢说在座的有很多人都有问题想问您，
and we have a few minutes for questions, so is there anybody that would like to ask Halla a question?
我们还有几分钟的时间来回答观众问题。有人想问海拉问题的吗？
Hello, my name is Cheryl. I'm an aspiring leader, and I have a question about how you lead when you have no influence.
您好，我叫谢里尔。我是名有抱负的领导者，我想问当你没有影响力的时候是如何领导的。
If I'm just an analyst, and I want to speak to senior management about a change that I feel will affect the whole company,
如果我只是一名分析师，我想和高层管理人员对话讨论一个我认为会影响整个公司的变化，
how do I go about changing their minds when they feel as if they've had relationships that are set, that their way of business is set?
我该如何改变他们的想法，如果他们觉得自己好像已经有了固定好的联系人和固定好的商业的模式？
How do you change minds when you have no influence?
当你毫无影响力的时候该如何改变人们的想法？
Well, thank you very much for that fantastic question.
非常感谢你刚提出的精彩问题。
So sometimes people at the top won't listen, but it's interesting that with the low trust we have in society right now,
有时在权力顶端的人不会听别人的，但有趣的是有研究表明，尽管现在我们社会间的信任度很低，
the greatest trust we have is actually between the employee and the employer, according to recent research.
我们所接触到的最多的信任其实是来源于雇主和员工之间。
So I think that relationship may be the most powerful way to actually transform the way we do things.
所以我认为那种关系可能是最有力量能改变我们做事情的方式的。
So I would start by trying to build a coalition for your good idea.
如果是我的话，我会从试着建立一个联盟开始，
And I don't know a single leader today who will not listen to a concern that many of their employees hold.
而且我认识的领导里没有一位是不会倾听很多员工都怀有的担忧。
I'll give you an example from another B Team leader, Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.
我用另一个“B企业”领导人来举个例子，马克·本尼奥夫，Salesforce的首席执行官。
He's really been outspoken on homelessness in San Francisco, on LGBTQI rights,
他在旧金山对于无家可归的问题，LGBTQI群体的权利，
and all of the things that he's been standing up for, he does because his employees care about them.
和其他所有他坚持捍卫的事情一直都很大胆坦率地发表意见，他这样做是因为他的员工关心这些问题。
So don't ever think you don't have power if you don't sit in a position of power.
所以不要因为自己不在权力的位置上就觉得自己没有能量。
Find the way to go convince him ... or her.
找方法去说服你的领导，“他”或者“她”。
And Marc, for example, was convinced to close the gender pay gap by two women who worked inside of his organization,
马克曾被两位在他的组织里工作的女性说服去结束公司里的男女之间收入不平等现象，
who told him, "We have a gender pay gap."
她们告诉马克：“公司里的男女之间收入不平等。”
He didn't believe it; he said, "Bring me the data."
他不相信，告诉她们：“请给我看下数据。”
They did, and he was smart enough to know he needed to do something about it,
她们照做了，马克足够睿智，知道这件事情应该被解决，
and was one the first tech leaders to step up and do so voluntarily.
并成为了第一批站出来主动解决此事的科技公司领导人。
So don't ever think that you don't have power, even if you don't sit in a position of power,
所以永远别觉得你没有权力，尽管你不在权力的位置上，
but find other people to support you and make the case.
也要找到其他人来支持你，为你的理由进行辩护。
Thank you. Anybody else? Any other questions?
谢谢。还有其他问题吗？
Hi, I'm overwhelmed by fascination with everything you're saying, so thank you.
您刚所说的一切都让我觉得很着迷，谢谢您。
I just wanted to ask how, like, diversity in opinion and thought and also background has impacted your leadership ability.
我只想问，意见、想法和背景的多元是如何影响您的领导能力的？
And what do you think is the barricade that is limiting the overflow of diversity in all business settings,
还有，您认为什么是阻挡所有商业环境中丰富的多样性的，
and what do you think can impact the change in that setting
您认为什么能影响那种环境中的改变，
but also to disrupt the overflow of generations of people staying in place?
但同时也能扰乱越来越多的一代代一直呆在原地的人？
And what do you think is the next step to breaking several glass ceilings?
还有就是，您认为我们下一步该怎样才能打碎一层层“玻璃天花板”？
We're going to do an entire Salon just on that question.
我们可能需要一整个沙龙的时间来回答那一个问题。
I think Bryn said it well, but let me try and touch on it.
我觉得布林说得很对，但还是让我试着回答一些。
So the way I see gender, it is a spectrum -- you know, men also have gender.
我看待性别的方式--我认为它像是一个光谱--要知道，男性也是有性别的。
We sometimes forget about that. We sometimes forget about that.
有时我们会忘了这点。有时我们会忘了这点。
And I actually played a very masculine woman early in my career, because those were the rules of the game.
在我早期的职业生涯中，我其实扮演了一个非常男性化的女性角色，因为那是游戏的规则。
And I achieved some success with it, but fortunately, I got to a place where I started embracing my feminine side as well.
我通过那种方式取得了些成功，但幸运的是，我最终达到了一个位置，可以让我开始欣然接受自己女性化的一面。
But I would still say that the best leaders embrace both, both women and men.
但我还是得说，那些最杰出的领导会同时接受这两面，女性化一面和男性化的一面。
But I see gender, also, as one of the most powerful levers to shift values in culture.
但我也认为，性别，是一种转变文化价值观最有力的杠杆。
So the reason I'm so passionate about women in leadership and believe that balance is needed
我之所以对女性领导这一话题这么充满兴趣，并相信我们需要平衡
is because right now, our definition of success is incredibly masculine.
是因为现在，我们对成功的定义还是很男性化。
It's about financial profit alone or economic growth alone, and we all know that we need more than money.
认为成功只有关财务利润或经济增长，但我们都知道除了钱我们还需要更多别的东西。
I mean, we need wellness: well-being of people, and there is no future beyond the well-being of our planet.
我是说，我们需要健康，需要大家都能安乐，如果我们的星球不安乐，我们是没有未来的。
So I think gender may very well be one of the most powerful levers
所以我认为性别可能是一种最有力的杠杆，
to help all of us shift our economic and social systems to be more welcoming.
能帮助我们所有人转变经济和社会系统，让它们变得更友好，令人舒适。
And the answer to your last part -- it's so complicated, but let me try to give you a short one.
关于你的最后一部分问题--答案有点复杂，但我想试着给你一个简短的答案。
I believe that the way talent and consumption is shifting
我相信才能和消耗发生转变的方式
is going to increasingly get companies to look at adding difference into their leadership,
会越来越让企业意识到应该在领导力中增加一些差异，
because sameness is not working... And difference is a superpower. Difference is a superpower.
因为单一化并不起作用...差异性是一种强大的力量。没错，差异是一种强大的力量。
Thank you very much. Halla, thank you so much, I wish we could talk to you all day. Thank you.
非常感谢。海拉，谢谢您，我真希望我们能交流一整天。谢谢大家。
