Hi everyone, and welcome back to Global Village. 欢迎回来【小酒馆·大世界】.

This idea in Japanese called Yutori Sedai, like宽松世代. So basically people who were born, I think after 1985 or 1987, 就是85后90后日本的这一代, because they enjoyed a more relaxed educational system, there was less competition. So I think as you described, they are probably more focused on work-life balance, a little bit more compared to the older generation, for example, like their parents generation.

Yeah.

And the other thing about the work, I don't know about the US, I think to some extent, China is a bit similar to Japan in this… in terms of the seniority, 这种论资排辈, although we don't call them前辈后辈, but this whole seniority thing, is it still very pronounced in Japanese culture especially at work？

Very much so, it's one of those things that's ingrained in people from elementary school, you have the Senpai and kōhai relationship.

就前辈后辈. Do they actually like people would actually call you Senpai？If you were for example in the company a few years before they…

I do hear people saying Senpai I never hear people referring to someone as kōhai, but I do hear Senpai on occasion like sometimes it's almost seemed as a little bit dirty to say the words Senpai.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

That's something that I hear like occasionally people are like er?...but no, like people will use the word occasionally, but there is kind of like this idea where you're a Senpai if you are older than another person or you're a Senpai if your position is higher than another person, sometimes it's kind of difficult to know where is the relationship if you're quite a bit older than the other person, they are supposed to treat you with respect.

But then if you have a higher position than them in the company and they're supposed to treat you with respect, but you can't do both. You have to kind of choose one depending upon the situation, right？And so that can kind of be difficult.

The subtlety of the language, actually, let's talk about language, I know that you have been learning Japanese for years. How is your Japanese？

I just passed one of my proficiency exams. I got the equivalent to N2, which is I almost scored high enough to get N1 and which is actually quite high. So as far as like my speaking goes, I would say that's maybe a little bit lower than like my reading and my listening, but that’s because I haven't lived in the country for so long, but I would say my speaking has actually gotten quite a bit better over the last year. That's something that does come with living in the country.

Of course.

It is quite a difficult language to learn and some aspects... especially for Americans or English speakers. Yeah.

Just on a side note, I have heard Brad speaking Japanese, you're pretty much fluent. When I travel to Japan, if I meet up with Brad, I have to rely on him a lot of the times if I have difficulty explaining myself in Japanese. So you're fluent pretty much, would you say?

Close enough.

But you just mentioned, it's quite a difficult language for English learners like for Americans. What are some of the major challenges？Is it Kanji, 是汉字的原因吗？

Kanji is one of the things that's difficult. I would say it's a mixture of the Kanji and the Grammar. Like when you compare Chinese and English grammar they're quite similar. Everything stays in the same place. I eat apples. 我吃苹果. But in Japanese, it's I apple eat.

And very often you don't say I anyways, you just say apple eat.

And a lot of western like Romance languages when you can omit the subject, the verb carries the subject or carries some sort of particle that allows you to know who the subject is like in French.

But like in Japanese, the verb doesn't change depending upon who is doing the action. And so you're always just kind of like what, who?

You have to wait. This is what I find to be quite difficult about Japanese especially if you're doing listening because they would say something, something, something, said this girl.

And then you like… because you just assumed all these what they were saying in the beginning was something this person said, but it turned out to be something said by another person. And then you just completely misunderstand the whole situation.

That makes it quite difficult, then they have the complexity of the grammar. In English, we do conjugate verbs and they do the same thing in Japanese. But rather than like having… like modal verbs, like we do in English, like can, could, I will.

情态动词.

They put them in the middle of the verb. So like basically you take your verb and you separate it into two words and then you put something in between them. That becomes quite difficult because you have the infix like something in the middle. You don't have something at the beginning like to undo something, right？You do something, you undo something, you redo something, you put something at the beginning, or you put something at the end. In Japanese, you put it in the middle.

I know. And then that makes it… that makes conjugation就是整个的动词变形, it's just… there're so many variations.

But what I find to be the most… the biggest headache in learning Japanese or Japanese as language is the honorifics, Keigo, 敬语.

For those of you who are listening to the show, if you have ever learned anything about Japanese or if you have been learning Japanese or can speak Japanese, you know what I'm talking about.

The honorifics, I mean, we have it to some extent in China, but it's definitely not as regulated as sort of stylized as in Japanese. We got rid of a lot of that in modern Chinese.

But they still keep to the original honorifics, like if I speak to you or if I speak to a younger person, I speak to an older person, I speak to someone who's more senior, I speak to someone who I'm familiar with, I speak to a stranger, it's all like different.

It's quite different. There has been movement to stop using Keigo especially like on the phone or when dealing with foreigners, because like when you talk to someone with a company, they are required by the company to use that formal language and for a foreigner who's like just learning the basics they call in, they're definitely not ready for that.

Even I have difficulty with it at sometimes, but like it's just something that's almost impossible for some people, even some Japanese people have to go to special schools so they can learn it better.

To learn Keigo.

Like it can be quite difficult because in English like we do say things like please or we add words like that, but it's very, very simple.

Whereas like in Japanese, the verb that you use depends on who you're talking to. We have different like giving verbs and receiving verbs and depending upon... are they above you, below you, are they in your group, you have different verbs that you would use.

Yeah. It's almost like speaking English and it’s really, really old fashioned, nuanced way, it’s like Thank you for honoring us with your presence.

And that sort of thing, or like I'm so extremely apologetic about the fact that inconvenience to you. Just people don't speak like that anymore, not most people don't speak like that anymore in English or in Chinese.

But do… like if as a foreigner learning the language, if you just forgo the honorifics, 如果你不用敬语的话, as a foreigner would you be accepted like or would people judge you in Japan？

I think when it comes to making friends, a lot people who are closer to you are going to ignore that. They're gonna understand that, it's difficult especially for a foreigner.

But people who are not really close to you are going to be like, why can't they learn this? Why can't they understand the language? They're gonna look at it a little bit downwards, but like yeah, I think it just depends on who it is you're talking to.

True, but I think, I do see that like what you're talking about the changing trend, like younger people are… there's movement trying to move away from the extreme honorifics？

Okay. Another question that I would like to ask you, because this is actually a topic that a lot of people have mentioned when it comes to Japan or a culture like Japan, because Japanese society more or less homogeneous, is it homogeneous？How do you pronounce that word？

I think here are both ways, I would say homogeneous.

Because Japanese society like many other east Asian societies or countries is quite homogeneous, 就是比较同源文化的. Every person looks like another person. This is very common in east Asian countries, including China.

In a way, it's a bit insulated. That's why there's the very established opinion of us versus them. This is why we say老外and they say Gaijin like literally外人. As a foreigner, do you think that sort of idea of a Gaijin makes it difficult for you to really fit in, assimilate, or even just make local friends？.

I would say at the beginning like when people see me, they see a really big foreign guy and they're just like there I'm not gonna understand Japanese culture, when they actually talk to me and they understand okay, he understands the language, he understands the culture. When they realize that I actually do a lot of the same things that they do, I enjoy the same types of things they do. They kind of let down their guard and so they kind of... it does take a while to kind of breakthrough that shell.

But it is kind of nice because eventually you do get there, even with older people like I've had older people walk up to me and then like try to say one or two words in English and kind of fail and then say can do you speak Japanese？And I say yes. And then we talk for a little bit and then just like the look on their face just completely changes once they kind of understand that you understand their culture and then they become much more open.

But I think a lot of it comes to people who come here and don't understand the language and don't understand the culture and just kind of Gaijin and smash through the world.

Yeah, I think it is very similar in China. I think we appreciate if you make the efforts, even if your Japanese or even if your Chinese is not perfect, but if you're making an effort to understand my culture, I would appreciate it.

Definitely.

So it's that kind of thing, but if you're just like taking a superior attitude like oh, local people weird, I will never understand them, then you would never really assimilate anywhere in the world.

Yeah, they do see some of that when you're in like a city like Osaka or Tokyo. You will see that people that are from other places in Japan, it'll take them a while to fit in there as well. They have their own dialect, their own way of speaking. You have the Osaka dialect, the Kansai dialect, the Tokyo dialect, everyone kind of feels that their dialect is a little bit more superior than everyone else is.

Actually, I was going to ask you this. You live in Kyoto now. So do you pick up any like the local dialect Kyoto-ben, or like Kansai-ben in general就是日本的关西话, 甚至是京都方言. Do you pick up any of that？

I would say it's something that's pronounced in Kyoto than it is in like Osaka. Like Osaka-ben is quite different. There's Kansai-ben which is the whole area of Kansai which includes Osaka and Kyoto. But then within Kyoto or within Osaka, it's completely different. They have as much stronger...they use some of their own words but like can be… in Kyoto it's not so pronounced, right. You don't hear it as much, you hear more of just kind of like the base dialect, the Tokyo dialect.

You do hear it, but in Kyoto I think it's more... sometimes it's put on... like in the service industry it's put on because people have this perception of what Kyoto dialect is.

用中文来说就是那种stereotypical Kyoto dialect是那种软软糯糯的那种感觉, 附庸风雅的那种感觉. But I've only really heard that kind of Kyoto dialects in the service industry.

Right. When you're talking to people outside of like a shop, you don't hear it as much, you don't really hear it like just the average everyday conversation. Like I don't hear my teachers using it at all, of course. But they're teaching Japanese but like yeah, just every day when I hear people having a conversation, I don't really hear it so much, but like when you're in a bar or in a shop, you will hear it quite a bit.

What I do is sometimes I try to pick up a phrase or so Kansai-ben. And then you say, especially if you're in Osaka and then you say it and they know you're not Japanese but you're trying to use a bit of Osaka-ben or Kansai-ben, they really get a kick out of it.

Yeah, if you throw in some of it, people just like wait a second, what？

Yeah, 其实就有点像你比如说一个外国人到中国, 然后假如说他在四川, 他说两句四川话那种感觉.

People are very proud of their own heritage, not just of the country but also of their local area.

In today’s episode, Brad and I talked about his experience with Japanese culture and his life in Japan.

In the next episode of Global Village, we are gonna continue with this topic.